I think Dan is distracted with 'Aces at Dawn', so I'll chime in like my opinion means something. :-)
(no, honestly, Dan's pretty good with the 'creative input' I've suggested - just some things I think would be cool are either too weird, too expensive to execute, require more in the way of support material, or just plain not something that's gameable - hey, I do artwork, it's a REQUIREMENT that I'm a little odd - just look at Van Gogh!)

I think such things have been suggested, and I know I've suggested using Iron Stars in lieu of Aeronef only partly in jest.

I think that you could use Iron Stars for the Aeronef set just fine as is, I'm wondering if you couldn't use the 'Aces at Dawn' demo rules for aircraft, with some house rules to wedge it all together....I've only glanced at the rules - but the period is the same.

We've tended to expand on the Iron Stars world, and not too much on the rules end - we've another Iron Stars book coming out, but it's nowhere near finished, and I think the parties that are involved (I am, anyway) with other projects or just too pre-occupied with real life.

I hate overtime, but I like having gas money and the kids get cranky if I don't take 'em to a movie every now and then...

from work...happy! happy! Joy! Joy!

Not really.

I mean, "not really" in that I'm not distracted by AaD -- that's Jim's baby.

The "problem" with Aeronef (if you can call it a problem; I like the game just fine, actually) is that it's abstract when compared to IS. Therefore, the question is not what to add to IS in order to play Aeronef, but what to add to the 'nef game stats in order to make them playable in IS.

I intend to bring IS down into the atmosphere in the near future... whether or not it will be directly translatable to Aeronef-type craft or something totally different I haven't decided yet.

Oh, and I doubt very seriously if AaD could be made to squish in to a game of IS -- the two engines are very different, and are of a completely different scale.  i.e., an experienced player would be hard-pressed to run more than 3-4 planes in AaD, while a game of IS could include dozens of FACs.

Yup, Dan just playtested with me, and helped immensely with the rules, but I'll happily take all the credit

My question of ramming was more centered on torpedo spars than to actual ramming.

Since IS says ships can't touch, I guess I took this literally and therefore assumed torpedo spars, which require a ram or contact, would be nullified.

As to Aeronef stats in IS, I was just going to build the ships from scratch using your ship design rules.  I wasn't going to try and translate the 'Nef rules or stats into IS.  Basically I was going to look at the model and build from there.  WYSIWYG design.

Just clarifying my questions and intentions.

Thanks!

I'd make it horribly improbable, as reflected by REALLY bad to-hit rolls, and the ability to dodge on the 'targets' part and give the 'rammer' a bad damage modifier and be done with it.....

You might also throw in a mandatory 'morale rule' on the part of the ramming vessels part if the player decides to ram - the pilot simply refuses to ram....

Make it clear that it's not the authors intent for ramming to occur, and it's OPTIONAL...

I think some cross-barrier games would be a GOOD thing.

I'd think that FACs are actually pretty heavy compared to fighters, but then - the FACs deal toe-to-toe with battleships - something that fighters couldn't do.

FACs aren't that much faster than Aethernoughts - planes are FASTER then their targets by an order of magnitude.

FACs and Aethernoughts are both 3D, surface combatants are firmly 2D.

FACs have to hold atmosphere, a plane can be open-topped.

FACs would be pretty resistant to airplanes, but you could swarm a FAC with a bunch of planes.

Unwieldy? No more than hydrogen bags.

The only difference would be that you'd have to deal with some local self-generated turbulence - but then a zeppelin was pretty badly affected by normal winds.

I'd wager an Aeronought would make a GREAT carrier for standard aircraft, there's this updraft to toss the planes upward.....:-)

Hydrogen, on it's own, will escape the lower atmosphere eventually. It's pretty light, and would tend to stay on the outer portions of the enviromental envelope. Given a little push from solar radiation, it will eventually escape the atmosphere. Good thing water is a stable molecule, and hydrogen so reactive, or it's goodbye oceans. :-)

Cavorite is even more so, it would escape the atmosphere, not because it's light, but because it cuts off any gravitic interaction.

Zeppelins float, largely because they are - due to their EFFECTIVE density- lighter than air.

You would structure an 'Aeronaught' (I submit we sue this term, to avoid any nasty copyright problems with 'Aeronef' - unless there's some copyright problem with 'Aeronaught') in such a way that the vast majority of the ships bulk is hidden by the cavorite shell. Any excess outside of the cavorite would be affected by the Earth's gravity. This portion that is drawn to the Earth would need to be just enough to make the ship neutrally bouyant in air. You could make it more or less bouyant by the use of your shutters, and use internal propellers as ducted fans to manuever. You could also hang your main engines outside the hull ala the old 'Zeppelins'...

You'd have 'updraft' from the force of the air above the ship moving very quickly upward, as it is suddenly weightless. BUT, the inrush of air would also tend to mix with the air above the ship, and negate any atmospheric losses on the Earth's behalf, as the air entering would push the weightless air back out of the cavorites influence. You have turbulence, but not anything catastrophic like loosing all the Earth's atmosphere to space - despite a novice's observations that such would be the case in Well's book.

You'd get some 'interesting' climb rates if you happened to pass over another ship, though....
:-)

I would tend to think that large ships would be the norm, as smaller ships would have less of a margin of safety in respect to it's bouyancy reserve.

You could also run steam systems aboard Aeronaughts, as you 've probably got room to put in a cooling tower for the steam condensers in the larger ones. The smaller 'naughts would likely run like old steam locomotives and be very overpowering at short ranges - but run out of water rather quickly as they haven't room for cooling towers - and so simply vent their used steam to atmosphere like the old steam locomotives did.

Cannonball Express, anyone?
:-)

I'd think that this was doable, BUT....

It'd be slow - the power of the wind would pretty much limit you to 50 knots or less (well, it's not THAT slow). If someone knew the proper math, perhaps we could get a better idea - it's just my gut feeling that you're not talking airliner speeds.

Honestly, though, I rather like the idea of a steaming Aeronaught, it's very 'period'... Your 'gravitical propellers' would take a fair amount of room, I'd wager.

Locomotive engines wouldn't take nearly so much room. Also, the outlet of the 'nozzle' would have to point somewhat upwards if you use 'straight winds' to propel the ship. If you fashion a 'collector-turbine' and use it to drive a gearbox and then a prop, it's going to half that speed, I'd wager. Also, the ship would have to be rather large to start with in order to accumulate enough updraft to produce any useful thrust.

How about the largest Aeronaughtical Transports using the Grav Sails, and the smaller ones using locomotive technology? Later on, in the 20's and 30's, you'd have Diesels playing a part, as they did in Zeppelins.

An Aeronaught's captain might be loath to give up all that space for cargo, when a locomotive or diesel (even with fuel bunkers) would take up less than a third of the room. You'd have 'collector ports' all along the underside of the ship, each requiring expenditure of rather pricey cavorite metal shutters(or some other means), your thrust will be limited by the size of those intake ports.

You might not need the shutters, but you'd certainly need the intakes, which would require *some* duplication of the cavorite shell.

There's always the possibility of using both or all three, depending on the size of the ship, and it's mission - I see merchants opting for locomotive propulsion for the most part. Coal is rather compact, and steam propulsion is rather proven. Diesels are unreliable until the '30's, and the other option would be rather wasteful of space.

I can see some form of 'cavorite a.p.u.' being used to provide power for a dynamo pretty universally. Electrical demands were pretty small back then, and you could use it to trickle charge a battery bank for the wireless.

Okay...just because it's been nattering around in the back of my head along with a few dozen other things (I REALLY need to get the maid to clean up back there)...I put together IS construct stats for Aeronef and added a bombing rule.  The construction stats pertain mainly to hull sizing, BAV, BTR, and turning issues so that the IS construction system and rules can be used for the remainder of things. 

These are WAY un-official and not meant to irritate the mighty powers of the aether and air.