• Registered: 2005-03-28
  • Posts: 480

Topic: Mixing Frames Within a Squad

What was the verdict on this? Should it be allowed and to what extent? Could a squad have mixed frames and NOT be exclusive, without breaking the points assumptions?

At what point does mixing frames become abusive, if I decide to house-rule it? Should 1 point of armour modifier either way matter? On the other hand, what about a Linked squad with three different size (SZ), Move (MV), and Armour rating (AR) frames? Would such a combination make Ad Hoc units pretty much irrelevant?

I ask all this as I now need guidance as to how I can best stat up my new shiney new Kryomek without having to shell out too much for a great many more shiney new Kryomek. Cost wise the ideal build is three aliens with bio-acid jets, three aliens with swords, and three little proto-aliens per squad, Linked morale because it's cool AND numerically convenient, but it seems to me such a combination MUST be cheesy in some way, even though I lack the statistics tao to really figure out why.

  • Registered: 2005-03-28
  • Posts: 416

Re: Mixing Frames Within a Squad

I don't recall what the verdict was, but personally I think allowing basically any combination of models of the same quality to not be Exclusive would make Ad Hoc units rule obsolete. Not in theory, since you can only have 15 (IIRC) Standard Units per army, but in practice. Anybody could just take the minimum Ad Hoc (25% again IIRC) for their army just in case the need arose after building the Standard units he/she (this latter in case there actually is a "she" who has ever played Defiance :wink:) really wants/needs to have mixed frames.

Granted, Ad Hoc units work a little different from Standard ones as they can split, but I don't really see so much benefit in splitting that it would justify the poorer response to command & control (if there was an option of taking the same unit as Standard, that is). Maybe that's just me of course.

If used as a house rule for adding a couple of different frames, I would make it an Augmentation, say "Command Armor", which would be free as of itself but take up an Aug slot. Taking the Aug for a frame would allow you to add a specified type of other frame into the unit formed of that frame to act as Commander/Leader/Hero.

That doesn't solve the problem of the Kryomek, of course. Exactly how many different Kryomek models do you have if you can't place the Kryomek Warriors into their own units and the Hellions (I would make Hellions to be Matrix quality, BTW) into their own, or make an Exclusive mixed frame unit + a few Ad Hocs?

  • Registered: 2005-03-28
  • Posts: 480

Re: Mixing Frames Within a Squad

tnjrp, the Kryomek thing was just an oddity arising from a desire to make a Linked force (3 to a fire team), the number of Warriors in a blister (2), and the number of Hellions in a blister (3).

You're right, Ad Hoc would effectively cease to exist. I'm thinking I'll fudge the -1 AR for Infranite War Leaders/ Chaingunners with an Augmentation and some, well, fudging; just add additional ad-hoc individuals for Machines and UNE; and just buy a few more miniatures for the Kryomek.  smile Darn! More miniatures!

EDIT: oh, I want to make the tail-only Hellions, the leg-only Hellions, and the Tail-and-leg-5-to-a-pack Hellions as three different frames. Since I'd like to make one type into jump-capable suicide CDW troopers, it might be best to arrange them into their own squads smile

  • Registered: 2005-03-28
  • Posts: 261

Re: Mixing Frames Within a Squad

Sorry about the delay in response, I've been awash in things to do.

I have been considering dropping ad hoc as a SR consideration altogether, and just having a standard number of units that aren't standard being allowed per game (1 per 1000 PV?).  The reasoning being that, given troop quality restrictions, ad hoc units can't be all *that* disparate.  Plus, unit splitting and joining are (as mentioned) very rare, and it is maybe a bit harsh to make the command card restriction.

This would allow for much more flexibility with standard units.  To answer the statistical question: as long as units follow the primary and secondary firing restrictions, there isn't really an easy way to "cheese out" this rule, assuming forces are large (>500 PV) and varied.

Any way, thoughts are appreciated.

  • Registered: 2005-03-28
  • Posts: 480

Re: Mixing Frames Within a Squad

My thought is that I personally, due to my miniatures collection and interests, would like to see standard squads being made more flexible in composition.

Regarding primary and secondary, a figure uses its listed primary weapon as primary weapon and fires with all other primary weapons in the squad, correct? So generally,  if I put three different figures with three different primary weapons together to make an ad-hoc unit, they can all use their respective "native" primary weapons (even though the weapons are each different from the others) and must fire as per the primary fire orders for their ad-hoc unit, right?

  • Registered: 2005-03-28
  • Posts: 480

Re: Mixing Frames Within a Squad

Bump?

  • Registered: 2005-03-28
  • Posts: 416

Re: Mixing Frames Within a Squad

smokingwreckage wrote:

Regarding primary and secondary, a figure uses its listed primary weapon as primary weapon and fires with all other primary weapons in the squad, correct?

Oops, have missed this one. So did Demian, obviously. I blame the board mechanics (so Demian has to come up with another excuse :wink:)...

Anyway, that would be a yes as weapon designation is per frame, not per unit. Could well lead (or be made to lead) to a situation where another frame's primary is another frame's support.

  • Registered: 2005-03-28
  • Posts: 261

Re: Mixing Frames Within a Squad

Yes, primary weapon is *per frame*.  It is meant as a logistical distinction more than a power distinction.