• Registered: 2011-09-26
  • Posts: 21

Topic: Regeneration

Since getting Nova edition several weeks ago my local gaming group has played several games.  So far we've been very impressed with how balanced the ruleset (a points calculation) seems to be.

Last night however I ran a fleet of large hull ships (30+) with regeneration.  The ships had no shields or ecm so they were easy to hit, but my opponent found that he couldn't really focus enough fire on one ship to kill it before it healed up.  We were running about 2200 points per side and I think I lost about 800 in exchange for tabling my opponent.  Has anyone else found regeneration to be overpowered?

  • Registered: 2006-01-17
  • Posts: 740

Re: Regeneration

I haven't used Regeneration in the S{NE version, but have in the past.  The secret is to have your entire fleet fire at the ship with regeneration again & again until its blown up.  Your fleet should have higher firepower.
My friends & I here in Jacksonville have stopped using shields, and all of our ships have "Fragile Systems".   This allows a ship to have a lot more hull. armor & weapons.  But I admit that no one here has taken regeneration yet.
:idea: What I would do in a battle where a fleet has some ships with regeneration and others without it, would be to destroy the ones that don't have it because their firepower to cost ratio is higher than the ships with regeneration.  Then pulverize the regen. ships...
Let me know if this works.

  • Registered: 2011-09-26
  • Posts: 21

Re: Regeneration

I agree and that is how we've dealt with them in previous versions of Starmada.  For reference I included one of my ships below.  The problem seemed to be that he couldn't focus enough fire power on a particular ship to knock it out with one punch.  I think that the fact that he had a lot of seeking weapons contributed to this.

Without regeneration the same ship comes to 274 points, so I am spending a 25% premium on the ability to recover a third (on average) of removed hull/armor boxes a turn.  It just seemed to be particularly effective in this battle.  I could put a 4+ shield on the ship for 361 and I think it would be more effective in most cases. 

Tyranid VOID FIEND-class Starship  (387)
ARMOR           
HULL    [_][_][_][_][_]  [_][_][_][_][_]  [_][_][_][_][_]
        [_][_][_][_][_]  [_][_][_][_][_]  [_][_][_][_][_]
        [_]                   [_]
THRUST    [6][4][3][2][2]       WEAPONS    [_][1][2][3][4]
ECM    [_][_][_][_][_]    SHIELDS    [_][_][_][_][_]
Regeneration
Marines
[_][_][_][_][_] [_][_][_][_][_]
3× Pyroacid Launchers    [FX3][PH3][SH3]    4-8-12    24    17    12    8    6    4    3    2    2    1    1    1
2× Bioplasma Spines (Vlt)    [FX]                             2-4-6    8    6    4    3    2    1    1    1    1    0    0    0

  • Registered: 2011-04-23
  • Posts: 31

Re: Regeneration

Is my math wrong because I'm calculating that to CRAT 445?

If he's firing multiple batteries of Seekers than use Pinpoint Proximity weapons to knock them out.  The Proximity effect will nail each battery firing, which he's likely firing multiple batteries.  Since each battery is a separate Seeker token, it's separately targetable and thus separately damagable using a Proximity weapon.

  • Registered: 2010-03-09
  • Posts: 630

Re: Regeneration

You don't need to knock out a ship in one turn because regeneration allows you to regenerate only 1/3 of your damage in average. Also, it can't regenerate damages on thrust, weapons, shjield and ecm. Thus, even if a ship regenerates enough to survive, it will be in a poor shape.

Marc

  • Registered: 2005-06-08
  • Posts: 760

Re: Regeneration

Strange, I also get a different CRAT if the ship is entered into shipyard nova. :?

Paul
[attachment=0]Tyranid Void Fiend.png[/attachment]

  • Registered: 2011-09-26
  • Posts: 21

Re: Regeneration

That's Strange.  I've just been using the starmada drydock to set up ships (and convert over some admiralty ships).  Any idea what might be causing the discrepancy?

Pneumonica: Is that how proximity weapons work on seekers?  I thought that you'd hit yourself with each one since they count as in your own hex. Also would each counter be considered a separate target?  We've been using the idea that all seekers and all fighters in a hex count as a single target for proximity weapons.

Madpax: I agree that most of my ships were fairly useless by the end of the battle from system damage.  We've been playing it that you only take the systems checks once even if you heal back past that point several times.  Is this the correct way to play it or should I have been adding on threshold checks each time?

  • Registered: 2011-04-23
  • Posts: 31

Re: Regeneration

Depends on your reading, I suppose.  Each fighter and seeker marker technically counts as an individual vessel.  Also, it only counts as being in your own hex if it's face-up and targeting you.  So, one point of issue is that if the opponent's combat phase is after yours, you won't get the chance.  On the other hand, if you're flying massive vessels, being hit by a street-sweeper Proximity weapon might not matter to you much, especially compared to multiple Attack Dice of Seekers.

Also, the rules aren't specific about regeneration and system checks, but it would seem rather oppressive to make checks for being Damaged twice, especially since the second time might only require one point of damage.

  • Registered: 2006-07-24
  • Posts: 158

Re: Regeneration

The rules say you only check for damage the first time you cross the threshold.

  • Registered: 2005-06-08
  • Posts: 760

Re: Regeneration

PSYCO829 wrote:

The rules say you only check for damage the first time you cross the threshold.

Is there a version later than 1.1?
My copy states "When a ship becomes damaged, and again when it is crippled, roll....." (page 14 & 15) and I seem to recall the question having been brought up before, where it was possible for a ship to be repaired/regenerated to less than 1/3rd damage and later again trigger the condition for another "Damaged" check.

This is probably one of those instances when an expansion of the rule giving an example (one way or the other) would be helpful in a future book/revision.

BTW If a ship sustains enough damage in a single attack to go straight to crippled, you have to make two damage checks, once for having passed the condition for Damaged and again for Crippled.

Paul

  • Registered: 2006-01-17
  • Posts: 740

Re: Regeneration

My friends & I here in Jacksonville have all given "Fragile Systems" to all of our ships.  There are several reasons we do this.
First, it makes the ship less expensive so it can have more hull and armor and hull delaying the threshold checks.
Second, it takes the guess-work out of making the damage/crippled rolls.  Too many times I have rolled a 1 or 2 and figured if I am gona loose two boxes too often, might as well have "Fragile Systems"...
Third, it makes the damage & crippled checks simple:  just mark off two boxes!

IT works for us; we are very competitive, but have much fun with the game. 8-)
Cheers,
Steven
Jacksonville, Fla.

  • Registered: 2011-09-26
  • Posts: 21

Re: Regeneration

Pneumonica wrote:

Depends on your reading, I suppose. Each fighter and seeker marker technically counts as an individual vessel. Also, it only counts as being in your own hex if it's face-up and targeting you. So, one point of issue is that if the opponent's combat phase is after yours, you won't get the chance. On the other hand, if you're flying massive vessels, being hit by a street-sweeper Proximity weapon might not matter to you much, especially compared to multiple Attack Dice of Seekers.

On page 16 the Rulebook says "All fighter counters in the same hex are considered a single target". 

Looking through the seeker rules on pg 25, there is no mention on how proximity weapons effect seeker markers.  A close reading of the seeker targeting rules shows that you target separate markers not a grouping of them.  It also says that they count as close range shots (not range one, where proximity would trigger against the firing ship). 

BeowulfJB wrote:

My friends & I here in Jacksonville have all given "Fragile Systems" to all of our ships. There are several reasons we do this.
First, it makes the ship less expensive so it can have more hull and armor and hull delaying the threshold checks.
Second, it takes the guess-work out of making the damage/crippled rolls.

True enough, but it makes munitions (such as marines) far more likely to die before they can be used.  I actually like the opposite extreme (reinforced systems) more.  But that's more of a personal preference.

  • Registered: 2006-07-24
  • Posts: 158

Re: Regeneration

I use the complete opposite as well, Reinforced Systems with minor shields, ECM, and the rest hull.
Add Fire Control, and it's not unusual for my ships to go down without suffering any real system damage.

  • Registered: 2006-01-17
  • Posts: 740

Re: Regeneration

<LOL>  U2 may be right.  We don't use Marines, not sure why...(?)
And when we used munitions/expendables, we concluded that the Weapon Trait Expendable is Very Broken,
IOHO (InOurHumbleOpinion). 
If you do use the Expendable WT, just design an fast attack ship with short range expendables that have Sctr,Dfs,Dx2,Dx3.  When you have innitiative, overload engines and have this ships-killer charge into the enemy formation as your last ship move.  Then fire all of these too-low-CR weapons and watch most of the enemy fleet vanish before your very eyes... :shock:

  • Registered: 2011-09-26
  • Posts: 21

Re: Regeneration

That does sound fun doesn't it :twisted: .

We normally use a restriction of no more then three traits per weapon.  Only one of these may be ranged based, only one can be damage based and scatter counts as both ranged and damage based for this restriction.

The only thing I've been tempted to use expendable on is fighters.  We tried out the actual fighter rules twice and they were a complete waste of points.  So instead we've been trying out seekers as a work around.  I've been using a variable number of dice per flight (to match the fluff of the fighters in question) and the Accurate, Seeker and Slow weapon traits.  That way people can try to shoot them down but they have some staying power.  I use slow to represent flights making their attack run and returning for refueling/rearming.

  • Registered: 2006-01-17
  • Posts: 740

Re: Regeneration

That is very clever, using seekers with slow to simulate fighters.  I may try that.  Whenever I take a ship with seekers, my friends  in Jacksonville shoot at it first and try to destroy it. 
Hmmm; let me see what I can come up with. :geek:

  • Registered: 2011-09-26
  • Posts: 21

Re: Regeneration

Here is an example from one of my designs.  The Frazi fighters have 6 dice on attack and 4 dice on defense.  The Centauri Sentri fighter has 4 dice on offense and 6 dice on defense.  Range is based on the fighter type.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Narn BINTAK-class Dreadnought  (787)
ARMOR    [_][_][_][_][_] [_][_][_][_][_] [_][_][_][_][_]
HULL        [_][_][_][_][_] [_][_][_][_][_] [_][_][_][_][_]
                [_][_][_][_]     [_][_][_][_]     [_][_][_]
THRUST    [4][3][2][1][1]       WEAPONS    [_][1][2][3][4]
ECM    [2][1][1][1][1]               SHIELDS    [_][_][_][_][_]
Hyperdrive
WEAPONS                                   ARCS     RANGE    ATTACK DICE            -4         -6         -8          -10
1× Maggun (Cts)                            [FR]    2-4-6            20    14    10    7    5    4    3    2    1    1    1    0
5× Heavy Laser                   [FX1][FF3]    6-12-18    40    28    20    14    10    7    5    4    3    2    1    1
3× Light Pulse (Acr/Pnp)            [TT]    1-2-3            18    13    9    6    5    3    2    2    1    1    1    0
1× E-mines (Bls/Prx/Vlt)            [FH]    6-12-18    4    3    2    1    1    1    1    0    0    0    0    0
3× Fighter Bays (Acr/Skr/Slw)    [TT]    5-10-15    18    13    9    6    5    3    2    2    1    1    1    0
» Combat Air Patrol (Pnp)                2-4-6            12    8    6    4    3    2    2    1    1    1    0    0

  • Registered: 2006-07-24
  • Posts: 158

Re: Regeneration

Reminds me of the Carriers in Starcraft 2, launching and creating new fighters as the battle goes on.

  • Registered: 2011-04-23
  • Posts: 31

Re: Regeneration

PSYCO829 wrote:

Reminds me of the Carriers in Starcraft 2, launching and creating new fighters as the battle goes on.

Come to think, that isn't a bad way of simulating such a vessel.  Nice.  ^^