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mj12games.com/forum → Wardogs → How about a new mech game
The subject says it all. What are your thoughts.
The subject says it all. What are your thoughts.
My thoughts are Assault Corps....
Then again, that could be just force of habit by now.
JP
In a pinch, you could even do a mech game with Defiance -- the full rules do have a genre option for that so it's not like you have to make all of the stuff up yourself either.
But I suppose if you want an all-mech game with detailed damage tables, energy allocation and the like, you might really be in "trouble".
The subject says it all. What are your thoughts.
I'm still waiting for someone to come up with mecha mechanics based on the Starmada Engine which someone brought up many moons ago...
:-)
With the work mj12 has done with starmada then this should be a good challenge for them. Games like Battletech have become to cumbersome. Cav will not be a game that even interests me.
Mechamada!
Starmada is about very big and extremely unlikely things moving hex to hex and trying to blast each other to slag. Battletech is about very big and extremely unlikely things moving hex to hex and trying to blast each other to slag whilst outmanouvering some truly alarming rules artifacts:
"NO! Don't stand behind cover! You'll get headshot!" (???)
And then, a single chunk of nonlethal buckshot hitting the cockpit might knock the pilot unconscious, but getting a light mech up to 200KPH and then ramming it into something 5X its mass has NO CHANCE of injuring the pilot directly.....
I actually enjoyed Battletech...and used to teach a tactics academy after hosting a tournament at Game Days in Bellingham. The ponderous thing with BT is that it takes forever to kill something...
Hmmm....maybe used a 1-10 armor rating per location, energy shields, energy melee weapons, something really anime-ish...a single hit in the right spot and >>>BOOOOM<<< bye bye mecha...
Well...once again I get stuck with a thought on something I just have to jot things down...laugh at me all ya want. :oops:
Okay...weapon design would work very very closely to what Starmada does. There'd be a lock on roll vs Target Signature then the to hit roll followed by penetration of shields and armor though both would suffer degradation by hits automatically thereby reducing their effectiveness as combat continued.
Mecha would be classed in Frame Sizes (Very Light/ Light/ Medium/ and Heavy) with space and movement modifications for Bipedal/ Quadrupedal/ and Hexapedal. (I didn't include hover or what since those are more tankish than mechish)
Each frame has a cockpit set for one pilot automatically (this can be AI if so equipped off the Special Gear list). Power Plants would be classed on size (Small, Medium, Large) with modifications to energy output and thermal signature based on type (MHD Fuel Cell, Nuclear Pebble Reactor, Fusion Core)
Movement would still be in hexes, though frame modifications could improve terrain costs (such as using the submersible frame mod. to treat deep lake and ocean hexes as rough terrain).
I'm still playing with the actual nuts n bolts and will post it when I've a bit more jell time on it.
Comments/ Input more than welcome... :wink:
(I never claimed to be sane...or right...) 
If I sound a little incoherent - please try to remember, I'm ALWAYS incoherent on Sundays, I work midshift weekends...:-)
My thoughts on Batteltech:
- Construction rules. I like making things, BT was okay in this department, but not great. They went way too far when they 'improved' the basic design sequence by adding MORE JUNK, it needs to stay pretty simple - the original was more complicated than it needed to be, then they added MORE stuff...space(criticals) AND tonnage? ....and cost only in the RPG?
- Movement and facing was about right, I'm thinking.
- Weapons and damage was totally nuts, the worst part of it. I can't hit a 30 meter tall walking tank acrss a few hundreed meters with a heavy machine gun? That same machine gun could kill the same heavily armored tank at a few yards by simply continuing to fire - knocking off chunks of armor? huh? Nazi Tanks had better armor!
- Damage allocation was okay, but too involved. The ablative armor model is the cause of this, it could be VASTLY simplified and still retain the flavor of doing damage progressively closer to the 'inside'.
- there was a total lack of ECM/EW, no Communications rules, though they both appear frequently in the fluff. Maybe they added that in the supplements I never bought...;/
- The absolute WORST cludge was heat. I've got a 'Mister Fusion' in my belly, and I produce so much heat that I have to sprout Heat sinks? And I can ARMOR them? I can see this in space, but on a planetary surface? No one has heard of a radiator fan? I heat up firing all my weapons, even when I'm not yet damaged? WTF? What Committee of mentally defective engineer wanna-bes designed this junk? I rarely used it, I usually ignored it.
I've seen 'improved versions', but they always fall down by adding on some clunky bits somewhere else in an effort ot make it 'more realistic', or add the authors pet mechanic...
I've got a set of rules called 'Renegade Tech' that does better in the 'weapon realism' and ECM departments, but adds the armor model from Renegade Legion! AHHHHHhhhhh!
My thoughts on design...
All mecha have life support, ventilation, military radio equivalents, some basic stealth or ECM options. Weapon type is tied to mission, is interchangable to a reasonable degree up to a certain size. Only Medium and higher mecha have guns that are 'part of them'.
Uberlight Mechs - Basic Mobility, and space for a 'hand' weapon
Light Mechs - Basic Mobility + one added special system and so much space for guns in the arms or shoulder.
Medium Mechs - Basic Mobility + two added special systems and so much space for guns in the arms, shoulder, and torso.
Heavy Mechs - Basic Mobility + three added special systems and so much space for guns in the arms, shoulder, and torso. May trade mobility for Armor, smallest mech that may carry a shield system.
...plus...Assault Mechs and Siege Mechs get bigger, but no slower.
...larger weapons shoot FARTHER, but suffer from 'to hit' penalties at those longer ranges due to the inability to train the weapon faster...
Tech levels are needed to show 'advancements' in mecha technology.
...end of line...
Sounds like some people around here have some good ideas. I'll keep checking back to see if any thing more will come of this, and I will be more than happy to get involved in play testing.
Sounds like some people around here have some good ideas. I'll keep checking back to see if any thing more will come of this, and I will be more than happy to get involved in play testing.
I've got some opinions, but you know what they say about what everyone has...
:-)
If someone wants to cobble together my ideas (or together with someone else's) into a MJ12 product, that's great. I have so many OTHER mj12 projects I'm involved with, I despair of finishing ANY of them periodically.
..not to mention my own. ;/
I envy those of you with a 9-5 job. I envy those of you that can think coherently most waking moments, as a matter of fact... 
I'd be happy to contribute some more, just don't ask me to head up the thing. I'm going to bed.....(it IS dark outside).
Dan,
It okay if I post a file to the player registry- beta rules for the hacked out rough of this mecha idea thing rather than trying to post it all here? :oops:
(Star-Mecha v0.025 for a conversational title) :roll:
Sounds Intresting, what kinda mecha are we looking at being able to make?
A limited selction or as wide as possible?
Personaly I am hopeing that we would be able to make anything from Escaflowne style fantasy mechs to high scifi style Veritechs and Gundams.
Sounds Intresting, what kinda mecha are we looking at being able to make?
A limited selction or as wide as possible?
Personaly I am hopeing that we would be able to make anything from Escaflowne style fantasy mechs to high scifi style Veritechs and Gundams.
As a goal, I'd say yes to that....
The only problem is explaining why the Mecha tech is light years beyond the mundane tech - or bringing up mundane tech to mecha tech levels....
..but that's a problem for the RPG and any interfacing wargames if this is stand-alone...
I'll add you one better.
Flexible enough to include 'War Machine' wizard-directed steam mecha (or golems, if you see them in that light).
Just a note: I liked BT, but random hit location should have stayed random. As soon as you stepped behind something, you de-randomised the hit locations. Rather than making headshots more likely, it should have written-off leg "hits". So simple.
Heat: I kinda liked heat. It didn't make any sense but it was kinda cool, especially in the computer games. In mechwarrior 4: mercenaries you could see smoke billowing off an overheated mech, which was fun.
Finally: in classic BT there were sizes of mech that were inefficient. I think it might have been 65 tonne mechs that were invariably less powerful than 60 tonne mechs.
Just a note: I liked BT, but random hit location should have stayed random. As soon as you stepped behind something, you de-randomised the hit locations. Rather than making headshots more likely, it should have written-off leg "hits". So simple.
That, I'd agree to....
Heat: I kinda liked heat. It didn't make any sense but it was kinda cool, especially in the computer games. In mechwarrior 4: mercenaries you could see smoke billowing off an overheated mech, which was fun.
If you want it, it ought to be in the 'muchkinized for your destruction' types...
IOW, normal mechs don't worry about heat unless they are damaged. They are designed to dissipate all their heat in a round, this would include all standard military mecha...
Prototypes would have this problem, 'overdriven' mechs would - depending on their energy source.
Finally: in classic BT there were sizes of mech that were inefficient. I think it might have been 65 tonne mechs that were invariably less powerful than 60 tonne mechs.
That's a kludge leftover from the goofy way they sized engines. If you were allowed to use 2 powerplants that equalled the same rating, that problem goes away.
There's a real-world problem, and that's weight. If you make a mecha that's over (I think) 700 pounds per square inch of footing, it'd sink into normal ground. Tanks are designed with those types of limits in mind.
Obviously, if you have anti-grav, this problem goes away.....
The design system and play should be roughly anime-ish in style. I'm going to add tanks and infantry stuff also as things progress. Hopefully you can run up to company sized units fairly easily and shoot them up without taking all day to do it.
Mecha consist of a Frame, Armor, Shields (if wanted), Free form weapon design (much like Starmada), a range of special equipment, Power Plant, and a cockpit. Gear takes up space and in cases has additional energy demands that only needs tracked on a use by use basis. Use too much energy, say for Flight Mode, and you may not have enough to fire some weapons or run shields in the combat phase.
Cannon Fodd...errrr....volunteers interested please form a line to the left. :twisted:
Where do you have this posted? I don't have any playtesters, but I would like to read it....
I don't have it posted as yet Dugan...and I don't have playtesters around these parts either. I'm pretty sure I'm the only wargamer within 50 miles. :cry:
I'll email what I have over. Realized this morning I need a turn sequence list and should finish off the Equipment space requirements. :roll:
I don't have it posted as yet Dugan...and I don't have playtesters around these parts either. I'm pretty sure I'm the only wargamer within 50 miles. :cry:
I'll email what I have over. Realized this morning I need a turn sequence list and should finish off the Equipment space requirements. :roll:
You know, the 'new posting' message came in at the same time as my mp3 list player started playing Al Yankovics 'Ebay Song'....it's called '1by1' - plays a whole directory....I hope that's indicative of something good...
Sure, send it over thedugan@yahoo.com
<spam-filtering address address given in the case we're in the prescence of evil-doing spammers who employ weasels covered with mayonaise as slippery dark agents...you can tell they're around by the slightly 'off' vinegary smell>
..I've got to stop listening to Frank Zappa....and start working on Hedrani #12. Yeah, Dan, got your preference. You would pick THAT one...:-)
I would be intrested in playing I got at least one person who would be willing to play a few games.
Whoops e-mail
zen49698@zen.co.uk
Dan,
It okay if I post a file to the player registry- beta rules for the hacked out rough of this mecha idea thing rather than trying to post it all here? :oops:
You can go ahead and post it here, there, or anywhere. 
Seriously, as long as you zip it so there aren't several stray files floating around, there should be no problem posting it on the forum.
Go0gleplex wrote:Dan,
It okay if I post a file to the player registry- beta rules for the hacked out rough of this mecha idea thing rather than trying to post it all here? :oops:
You can go ahead and post it here, there, or anywhere.
Seriously, as long as you zip it so there aren't several stray files floating around, there should be no problem posting it on the forum.
The files section at Yahoo is a little full...
..and in case anyone is interested, 'www.whoopsymail.com' is free.
:-)
Okay...I'll try to set this up over lunchtime (12:30pm PST). Work has me trying to defy the laws of space and time again. :?
The v0.025 are enough for discussion and review...not quite to playable level yet due to me not having completed the equipment space tables and needing to put together a turn sequence.
I'm also thinking I may need to break the weapons down into categories:
Energy
Ballistic
Missiles
Melee.
Energy will need less space and no ammo, but increase thermal signature
Ballistic takes up more space for ammo and has expenditures
Missiles end up with different ROF issues
Melee I've covered okay I think.
So many issues...so few brain cells left...*augh*
...not quite to playable level yet due to me not having completed the equipment space tables and needing to put together a turn sequence.
I'm also thinking I may need to break the weapons down into categories:
Energy
Ballistic
Missiles
Melee.Energy will need less space and no ammo, but increase thermal signature
Ballistic takes up more space for ammo and has expenditures
Missiles end up with different ROF issues
Melee I've covered okay I think.
I wouldn't have different damage mechanics for each type, though I think guidelines for the different types is a good thing. What you've got here is a good thing - I can see things working like this in real life....though I wouldn't go TOO far to get realistic. That way lies madness....
:-)
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