Topic: A few product questions

Hi all,

I have a few questions about some Starmada related products. If anyone has any official or unofficial ideas or opinions, please fire away.

1) How outdated is the Sovereign Stars? Are the ship designs something that could be ported over to Starmada X or are they simply too out of date? I have Twilight Imperium 2&3 and wouldnt mind seeing ship stats for each of the races. I know the book is out of print, but its still available in PDF form.

2) How usable is VBAM and the crossover Starmada companion? Starmada is a wonderful set of rules for tactical combat that allows a lot of variety with little complexity. Is VBAM a similar product for the strategic scale? I downloaded the demo PDF for VBAM, but that really doesnt get much into the nuts and bolts of the system. I had Starfire:New Empires once upon a time but never played it as it was just too darned cumbersome. Is VBAM unwieldy or is it something that can realistically be played by 'normal' players.

Thanks for any input!

Re: A few product questions

Well...having just read through VBAM and VBAM: Starmada X, I don't think you'll be disappointed Uncle Joe.  Lacking players I can't speak for that side of it...but it sure has me itching to conquor the galaxy.  smile

I've not heard anything bad from the folks that have played the VBAM rules either.

Re: A few product questions

Basic VBAM is not cumbersome, and surprisingly filled with details at the same time. Now, there are lots of optional rules that can extend play until it is complex as you could wish.

From a Starmada perspective, it offers a consistent way to cost and generate ships for campaign play and to consistently approach technology implementations.

Re: A few product questions

Uncle_Joe wrote:

1) How outdated is the Sovereign Stars? Are the ship designs something that could be ported over to Starmada X or are they simply too out of date? I have Twilight Imperium 2&3 and wouldnt mind seeing ship stats for each of the races. I know the book is out of print, but its still available in PDF form.

They should be reasonably easy to convert to X... maybe that's a project for someone?

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: A few product questions

Ok, thanks for the info.

A side question for VBAM:

How hard is it to just use 'stock' Starmada X ships in it without having to convert to KBE and whatnot? I've noticed that not all the spreadsheets support the VBAM conversion and I'd honestly just like to have consistancy between campaign and non-campaign play.

Is it possible to play the VBAM rules without adding the VBAM altered ship mechanics (and still without a ton of hassle)?

Thanks again!

Re: A few product questions

Uncle_Joe wrote:

Ok, thanks for the info.

A side question for VBAM:

How hard is it to just use 'stock' Starmada X ships in it without having to convert to KBE and whatnot? I've noticed that not all the spreadsheets support the VBAM conversion and I'd honestly just like to have consistancy between campaign and non-campaign play.

Is it possible to play the VBAM rules without adding the VBAM altered ship mechanics (and still without a ton of hassle)?

Thanks again!

I think it would be pretty easy.
The spreadsheet with the VBAM stuff calcs regardless of whether you are set for VBAM/KEB or straight Starmada. So you have all your VBAM stats regardless, and then you can play your Starmada games out in your preferred form.

The version I am using is close to release ready - being modified for a new VBAM/Starmada setting due out shortly after the currently active playtest completes.

Re: A few product questions

Uncle_Joe wrote:

How hard is it to just use 'stock' Starmada X ships in it without having to convert to KBE and whatnot? I've noticed that not all the spreadsheets support the VBAM conversion and I'd honestly just like to have consistancy between campaign and non-campaign play.

The beauty is that the KBE rules are an 'extension' to the basic Starmada rules, and can be ignored completely yet still yield balanced games.

Is it possible to play the VBAM rules without adding the VBAM altered ship mechanics (and still without a ton of hassle)?

Absolutely.

As far as I know, the KBE rules were specifically designed for the Wars of the B&K, and are not an integral part of VBAM.

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: A few product questions

cricket wrote:

As far as I know, the KBE rules were specifically designed for the Wars of the B&K, and are not an integral part of VBAM.

A good point I always forget.
The Stars Divided setting will be using them, also.

Re: A few product questions

cricket wrote:

As far as I know, the KBE rules were specifically designed for the Wars of the B&K, and are not an integral part of VBAM.

Quite right. The KEB system was added for the BK source. It is usable for a SX campaign of course, but the book was designed for Starmada players to run campaign games, and campaign gamers to play tactical battles in Starmada (with as much or little detail added as they like).

Dan and I were insistant that the product remain modular like the original products.

   -Jay

Re: A few product questions

Uncle_Joe wrote:

2) How usable is VBAM and the crossover Starmada companion? Starmada is a wonderful set of rules for tactical combat that allows a lot of variety with little complexity. Is VBAM a similar product for the strategic scale? I downloaded the demo PDF for VBAM, but that really doesnt get much into the nuts and bolts of the system. I had Starfire:New Empires once upon a time but never played it as it was just too darned cumbersome. Is VBAM unwieldy or is it something that can realistically be played by 'normal' players.

VBAM's level of detail is set at a point where you aren't dealing with the minutiae that you might encounter in a campaign system like Imperial Starfire (which I think is one or two revisions after New Empires). You worry about more discrete Census, not large population numbers, and you don't have to worry about missile funds or tracking things at that level.

The demo isn't all that forthcoming about firm details; it does however give an overview of some of the different elements that you can expect to find in the book.

Go0gleplex wrote:

I've not heard anything bad from the folks that have played the VBAM rules either.

Oooh!  Oohh! “I played it many times, and hated each and every time. I hope that someone strings them up and leaves them out in the desert to die a horrible, painful death. Especially the guy that wrote the Companion... I hate that guy.”

smile

Taltos wrote:

Basic VBAM is not cumbersome, and surprisingly filled with details at the same time. Now, there are lots of optional rules that can extend play until it is complex as you could wish.

At its most basic level, VBAM can be used as a simple campaign companion for Starmada. You can add on or strip off as much detail as you want. The game is all about optional rules and letting you tailor it to how you want to play. The first several games of VBAM I played, I stripped out the economics and Intel rules out and played with alternatives. Everything else worked. Then, as I warmed up to portions of the rules, I added them back on... and then wrote more. And more. And then put them in a big book of optional rules.

I am scary.

Uncle_Joe wrote:

Is it possible to play the VBAM rules without adding the VBAM altered ship mechanics (and still without a ton of hassle)?

As previously answered, the KEB mechanics and other special items aren't special to VBAM itself, just the Boltian/Kuissian setting that was being presented. VBAM is setting neutral, so the effects of such things as KEB (or standard SX Defense) are abstracted into ship statistics, statistics that are only important if you are using the CSCR to resolve some combats strategically. Otherwise the only unit statistics that are strictly important (IIRC) are construction cost and maintenance cost. Everything else is pretty secondary.

-Tyrel

Re: A few product questions

Uncle_Joe wrote:

Ok, thanks for the info.

A side question for VBAM:

How hard is it to just use 'stock' Starmada X ships in it without having to convert to KBE and whatnot? I've noticed that not all the spreadsheets support the VBAM conversion and I'd honestly just like to have consistancy between campaign and non-campaign play.

It has been beaten to death, but yes the rules do a great job in converting the original starmada into VBAM.  That was something that the designers wanted to accomplish.  The reasoning behind the KEB was to give more options for players for technological purposes which is great for campaigns.  I guess that actually goes for all the 'changes' in the starmada system for VBAM.

-Bren

Re: A few product questions

OK, thanks again for all the input! I went ahead and picked up VBAM and the Starmada Edition as well. I'm reading through it now. There is a lot there to digest. smile