• Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 811

Re: Some questions, some comments

Sure you have.  I think that is the true problem with the Stealth/LRS. Try a game without reverse (or with it limited to 1 hex/turn) and see if that makes the Stealth/LRS combo a lot more manageable. Even ships not designed to specifically counter that combo will be far more effective at it.

Honestly, I can't think of a single battle where I cried "stop moving backwards you bastard!"

And the SG/LRS combo was particularly cheesy when combined with inverted range modifiers.

The problem is that you can't close fast enough to kill the opponent's ships before you lose 20% of your CR to the needle guns.

I did better with:

Lots of fighters
PDS
Shields 2
Very Fast Ships (8+ speed)
Sunbursts (which I play very poorly)

Never did much with stutter drive, but that's one for the record.

  • Registered: 2006-01-18
  • Posts: 90

Re: Some questions, some comments

The problem is that you can't close fast enough to kill the opponent's ships before you lose 20% of your CR to the needle guns.

Honestly, I can't think of a single battle where I cried "stop moving backwards you bastard!"

Hmm, how are they holding the range open? If you have even reasonable speed ships (5-6) and they arent backing up at full speed (at least half of that rate), then you should be getting hit for at most 1 or MAYBE 2 turns before getting into range (again, assuming you have LR weaponry as well and that its the SGs preventing the retaliation).

Or are they using the Spathi-type rear-firing LR weapons? smile

Do y'all use the Evasive Maneuver options? Directional Shielding? Fighter Screening? Emergency Thrust?

I would think a combo of even just Fighter screening and perhaps ECM should whittle down their LR advantage for a turn or two. That should be sufficient to allow you to close the range assuming they arent in full reverse. Since Fighters can move to interpose after seeing the ships' final positioning for the turn, it should be fairly easy for even just a few of them to establish the screen at longer ranges (unlike Sunburts that require more planning and luck in placement).

I agree thats its amusing to see what tactics plague different groups. smile

  • Registered: 2006-01-17
  • Posts: 359

Re: Some questions, some comments

A fast ship with all of it's weapons in the front arc, chasing it.....

Or move away from him.... he would have to turn around to come back after you, and if you have a ship with a few long range weapons, you could fire with impunity.

Or play on a battlefield with "fixed" borders, no floating hex map, and suddenly he has to avoid leaving the battlefield, which keeps him in range.

In one game, we kind of cheesed our resident player who loves the above tactics........  We basically anounced that we were doing the floating hex map, but that if ships went off the opposite sides of the board, the side with the most hull points leaving was the way the board drifted, and ships on the other side were "lost".
He created his "Jackrabbit" design again, (4 hull, 3 shield... all the weapons on the right side....) and he started racing around the edge in a clockwise motion. As soon as he got to the edge, we had a batch of ships step off the opposite end, and voila..... bye bye jackrabbit.

After that, he started working on his designs a bit better. Also, as a group, we agree to any special rules at the beginning of a scenario..... and our ships and races have to be written up in advance. One of the regular ones that I use gets a +1 to weapons, but cannot use a shield over level 4, and there is a list of special equipment that they cannot use.... to include some of the weapon effects.

The thing is that the entire group should agree on what is cheesy, and run from there.

John

  • Registered: 2006-01-18
  • Posts: 90

Re: Some questions, some comments

For pure amusement, here is a wonderful candidate for ship types that should be solidly squelched in the rules. smile IMO, limiting reverse does just that. Otherwise, disposable little vessels like this one are pretty nasty.

Note that I would beat anyone over the head who would bring such a thing to our gaming table, but this is just intended to show an extreme example. And it opens up the issue of where exactly is the 'cheese' line? Speed 12? Speed 8? Speed 6? etc. Since if you ask 3 different groups what is their defination of cheese, you'll get 3 different answers, my preferred solution is to the have the rules set nip it in the bud. *shrug*.

Anyways, look up this mighty ship and despair. smile And of course its beatable if you know its coming, but thats not the point!  tongue


Velvetta Class class Dairy By-Product Imperial Navy Cheese Destroyer   (80)
Hull: 4 3 2 1
Engines: 12 11 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1
Shields:
[a] LR Irritation Torpedo [6/12/18, 3+, ROF 3, Halves Shields]
AB
Hyperdrive [O], Stealth Generator [O], Long Range Sensors [O]
1[HE], 2[2E], 3[HE], 4[EQ], 5[HQ], 6[Ea]
TL: E: 0 S: 0 W: 0 Q: 0

  • Registered: 2006-01-17
  • Posts: 359

Re: Some questions, some comments

Actually, it is rather cute !!

I would use one or two..... maybe.......

I often use speed 8 corvettes that are Hull 2 with a single range 12 laser with arcs ABCD.  Mostly as harrassers...

Of course, if that misses, then he can't shoot anything else until next turn.

John

  • Registered: 2005-03-28
  • Posts: 287

Re: Some questions, some comments

jimbeau wrote:

Sure you have.  I think that is the true problem with the Stealth/LRS. Try a game without reverse (or with it limited to 1 hex/turn) and see if that makes the Stealth/LRS combo a lot more manageable. Even ships not designed to specifically counter that combo will be far more effective at it.

Honestly, I can't think of a single battle where I cried "stop moving backwards you bastard!"

When played well, or on prperly designed ships, the LRS/SG combo does not need to back up. It wouldn't hurt, certainly, but shouldn't be necessary. Especially since you can't back up faster than most ships move...

jimbeau wrote:

And the SG/LRS combo was particularly cheesy when combined with inverted range modifiers.

The problem is that you can't close fast enough to kill the opponent's ships before you lose 20% of your CR to the needle guns.

I did better with:

Lots of fighters
PDS
Shields 2
Very Fast Ships (8+ speed)
Sunbursts (which I play very poorly)

Speed is usually the killer.
PDS is a pain.
Marines could be vicious as I recall

jimbeau wrote:

Never did much with stutter drive, but that's one for the record.

Stutterdrive was Graham's play. I had to jump out to escape the beat down - the only time I ran with that fleet, damn it.  lol
The secret there is the extra movement managed to close the distance faster than I was prepared for - slipped through the whithering fire without withering.