Topic: A Few Random thoughts

Since its so quite around here I decided to throw a few ideas around, maybe get a bit of disscusion going.

1) As it stands there is just one set of movment costs, is it worth having a movemen cost for differnet units? (i.e Walker, track, wheel, hover). If it was would it be worth having the option of mutilple movement sytems for the mecha ala Heavy gear?

2) Moving into space. smile This is a big area of mecha stories, it would'nt feel right if we cant =P. Althrough the inclusion of starmade link in is good should space rules at the wardogs level be considered or maybe as a addon?

3) I have been thing about the shield rules would it be worth making a flaw/enhanment that would stop shields working against a certain type of attack ie. (Energy only shields ala Metal Fatigue which is a great game btw.)

Think thats it for now.

Re: A Few Random thoughts

Faustus21 wrote:

Since its so quite around here I decided to throw a few ideas around, maybe get a bit of disscusion going.

1) As it stands there is just one set of movment costs, is it worth having a movemen cost for differnet units? (i.e Walker, track, wheel, hover). If it was would it be worth having the option of mutilple movement sytems for the mecha ala Heavy gear?

The assigned movement points by small, medium, etc. was an attempt to keep things relatively simple.  Between ground vehicles and mecha there really isn't that great of a disparity without using thrusters...and those have been included in as frame enhancements.  Also, a bit of speed variation has been added by means of mobility enhancements and the modifiers imposed by other enhancements. 

If someone comes up with a simple energy points assigned to give this movement system...I am willing to look at it.  It has to avoid constant record keeping though which I'm not sure can be done and fit within the design rules framework.  Hmmm...consider that a challenge then.  :wink:

Faustus21 wrote:

2) Moving into space. smile This is a big area of mecha stories, it would'nt feel right if we cant =P. Althrough the inclusion of starmade link in is good should space rules at the wardogs level be considered or maybe as a addon?

Mecha blasting into space on their own accord...could be an added frame enhancement...aerospace booster pack or something, this may be good from more of a role playing aspect however. 
Primarily though I think getting mecha into space is going to be the province of shuttles and vehicle transports for within a dedicated wargame (like in G Saviour- live action gundam movie...cheesy plot and shakey acting to start but really decent effects and battle scenes). Once in space then they function per the starmada crossover rules...to say...like half strength fighters since space really isn't their primary environment.

Again though, if someone can present a simple rule model for this...I'm listening. 

Faustus21 wrote:

3) I have been thing about the shield rules would it be worth making a flaw/enhanment that would stop shields working against a certain type of attack ie. (Energy only shields ala Metal Fatigue which is a great game btw.)

Think thats it for now.

Energy type weapons do have the capability to ignore, half, and implode shields...as weapon enhancements.  I don't think it would be too amiss to give kinetic weapons a half shield enhancement.  But remember also...shields are only good for so many hits a turn before they fail...then it's only the armor you're dealing with.   If you lock-on to your target, then at least one hit is scored against the shields even if you don't actually penetrate them to do damage against the mecha. 

A possible alternative is to reduce the shield bonus to armor but make the shields non-ablative in the above manner.  I think that may create other hardships however.  Keep talking though...I'm listening.  :twisted:

Re: A Few Random thoughts

For number 2 my mistake on how it was written.

I was meaning wardog rules for fighting in space.

Since spacebattles are a fairly big part of several mecha stories.

Althrough I enjoy starmada, my own feelings is it is on the wrong scale it focus on the ships, where as in mecha stories the mecha are the stars and the ships are the back drop.

Thinking abit more it might be an idea to use the Flight mods, to represent engines in space. So its a bit more math intensive to move, that way there is not much that needs to be added.

Re: A Few Random thoughts

Mechs with shields are a new one for me anyways.....

On the Mechs in space, I understand what you want, but there end up being some other issues when it comes to it.

Either the mechs can do incredible amounts of damage, and carry the same weapons as the ships,

or

Ship weapons are so massive, that they kill the mech in one hit.

Battletech went with the second option.... Naval (space navies) weapons were so massive, that any mech, fighter, and some lighter dropships were instantly killed when hit.......

This would shorten your game dramatically.... i.e.
Rich Hunter charges out to engage the enemie battle cruiser..... the enemy battle cruiser fires...... and Rick's next of kin get a letter listing him as VIA (vaporized in action)

Or

you can have Exo-squad...... the "mechs" fire all the same weapons as the ships do.... and even though this carrier is large enough to carry several squads of mechs, a single squad can take the carrier down......

Here, your capital ships end up being way too fragile....i.e.

The heavy battlecruiser moves into position to bombard the planet below..... the over 3000 crew preparing to unleash death on the citizens.....when suddenly, 10 little mechs.... barely dots to the ships size...begin their attack. Within moments, they have destroyed the engines, and broken the hull..... seconds later, pieces of the ship begin to enter the atmosphere......


On television, and within books, it is possible..... but for a game to have a the logical system for everyone to play.... you run into differences.

In the first scenario, most people would evade the ship weapons..... that's true, unless you have an anime spinal mounts.... hitting everything in a hex...... or the player decides to just fire with penalties, because there is always a small chance he might hit.......

Trying to squeeze them in as fighters loses the flavor..... fighters have their specific abilities, and if we just make the mechs fighters, then they are fighters......just funny looking ones..... and trying to give them their own special abilities just makes the rules more complex....... and demeans the fighters already in the game

In my opinion... the best bet is to leave them seperate, and this is despite the fact that I do like the concept. Unless you want to make the mechs larger, at which point, they are just odd looking ships, themselves.

John

Re: A Few Random thoughts

Well...if you're looking for movement in space take a peek at the Terrain Appendix...

If you want a moon or asteroid surface battle, just use the Vacuum+Light Gravity(...or Heavy Gravity if it's a massive airless rock) terrain...if it's a frozen, airless chuck of ice cube...Vacuum+Very Cold+Light Gravity terrain...the battlefield system should be flexible enough to simulate any environmental conditions within a 1 to 3 range limit.  1 being minor effects and 3 being severe enough that even a mecha has a bit of a challenge dealing with it.

If you're looking at more of a 'flight' movement...then the mecha has to have full flight mod and use the straight vacuum modifiers.  For more realism if desired, you could institute a knockback effect...one hex per damage die of weapon on a failed stability roll.  (again...not 100% accurate, but I think it would serve decently).

Hope that helps... smile

Re: A Few Random thoughts

Nahuris wrote:

Mechs with shields are a new one for me anyways.....

I was thinking along the line of some of the mecha from Gundam Wing...and Evangelion...and several other anime shows.  Nothing says you have to use 'em. wink

Nahuris wrote:

Either the mechs can do incredible amounts of damage, and carry the same weapons as the ships,
or
Ship weapons are so massive, that they kill the mech in one hit.

What it actually is, is a power to mass ratio difference. Ships have a much greater p-m ratio than fighters or mecha.  Fighters have a two to three times greater p-m ratio than mecha.  Therefore it's logical that mecha's combat ability in space is about half that of a space superiority fighter. 
They have their advantages...but speed and firepower in space isn't one of them.  On the other hand....they will be more maneuverable than either a ship or fighter will because they are so slow. (think zero turning radius...or nearly so)  Enough mecha can kill a starship...but no lone mecha should be able to without being incredibly lucky beyond any rational factors...


Nahuris wrote:

Trying to squeeze them in as fighters loses the flavor..... fighters have their specific abilities, and if we just make the mechs fighters, then they are fighters......just funny looking ones..... and trying to give them their own special abilities just makes the rules more complex....... and demeans the fighters already in the game

If a ship is in trouble...and very hard pressed...then the captain of that ship is going to use everything available to him to defend his ship.  If mecha are onboard...they're going to be deployed.  And yes...in space...without a planet or rock to move around on...mecha ARE nothing more than a specialized sub-standard fighter...and therefore are treated as such for purposes of tying the two games together in a reasonable fashion without a lot of convoluted rules being needed.  In thinking through these comments though...the mecha should be considered SLOW fighters for purposes of speed.

Re: A Few Random thoughts

I agree..... if I was a captain, I would have marines in spacesuits with rifles shooting.... if I had nothing else, and they had a chance of damaging anything.........

As to the shields, I like the idea.....it is just a new one for me.....LOL

What I could see would be the mechs, maybe walking around on the outside of the ship (maybe magnetic grapples in the feed, or small thrusters on the legs provideing thrust against the hull) and providing additional support, with maybe the ability to jump from one ship to another......ect.

What I have trouble fathoming is a Daishi (battletech) flying around chasing fighters, ect. It could be do-able......just something I am having an issue wrapping my mind around.....LOL

John

Re: A Few Random thoughts

If the mecha is not equipped with the full flight mod then yes, the mecha would be limited to a hullward deployment.

for flight though, the mecha has to have the full flight mod though. smile