Topic: Star Wars ships...
May be a very common question, but I am not able to find info about this on the net or in these forums....
I mean, "someone" must have posted somewhere their Star Wars designs for Starmada.... Am I wrong?
thanks
Memo
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mj12games.com/forum → Starmada → Star Wars ships...
May be a very common question, but I am not able to find info about this on the net or in these forums....
I mean, "someone" must have posted somewhere their Star Wars designs for Starmada.... Am I wrong?
thanks
Memo
The MJ12Games group on Yahoo! Has a few conversions, IIRC they didn't follow the construction rules but were still fun to look at.
I'm new to the rules (just bought them 2 days ago) and new to scifi-naval gaming as well, but I'm currently working on this. The process in general will be:
1. Organize all the stats from the old WEG Star Wars series, which is the only comprehensive source of game stats that I know of, despite its idiosyncratic format.
2. Try to normalize all that data - WEG was not very systematic about applying similar stats to similar weapon systems, etc.
3. Try to fit this data into a Starmada design.
So far, I have the weapons systems organized, and have worked out generic stats for the primary weapon systems: Turbolasers, Ion Cannons, Laser Cannons, and Concussion Missiles. Given the extremely high numbers of these weapons on the typical Star Wars ship (even the lowly Nebulon-B Frigate has 12 Turbolasers and 12 Laser Cannons), I'm currently trying to use 10 weapon mounts = 1 Starmada weapon mount, or possibly use the ROF to tweak that ratio.
Here's what I'm working with so far:
Turbolasers: Rng 12, To Hit 4, ROF 1, Pen 3, Dmg 3, Inverted Range Mods (140.40)
Ion Cannons: Rng 6, To Hit 5, ROF 1, Pen 1, Dmg 2, Ignores Shields, No Hull Dmg (14.00)
Laser Cannons: Rng 3, To Hit 4, ROF 1, Pen 2, Dmg 2, No Range Mods, Repeating (34.56)
Concussion Missiles: Rng 3, To Hit 4, ROF 1, Pen 1, Dmg 3, Must Re-roll To Hit, Variable Dmg (7.65)
I don't know how much sense these make in gameplay terms, but the general idea is the Turbolasers are for long distance work versus capital ships and not as good in close, while the Laser Cannons are for close defense work, especially against starfighters. Ion Cannons ignore shields but don't cause physical damage, while Concussion Missiles are erratic but potentially powerful (I may add Must Re-roll Pen to them as they are ballistic rather than energy weapons).
Another problem is that most of the canon designs don't make a lot of gameplay sense, i.e. the Star Destroyers have immense Turbolaser batteries but no Laser Cannons.
The Tractor Beam can also be used as a weapon in the Star Wars universe, but I have no idea how to model that in Starmada terms.
Feedback welcome!
Cheers,
Christopher
PS - I'm using the Shipyard program - looks great!
Okay ... replying to myself (bad habit), I'll note that after looking through some of the example ships, I've over-used the Pen and Dmg ratings, resulting in high-cost weapons.
to make better anti fighter weapons, use a ROF of 3, PEN 1 and DMG 1
PEN and DMG mean nothing to fighters as they are never rolled.
Makes sense - I hadn't digested the fighter rules yet!
I had another epiphany, however. It's easy to visualize a PEN of 2 as a twin gun mount (1 aiming process, but two hits), and a ROF of 2 as a section of 2 gun mounts ... and of course a combined ROF/PEN 2 as a section of 2 twin gun mounts. This will help a lot when rationalizing the large numbers of guns in the Star Wars batteries.
How about multiple ROF 2 Repeaters as anti-fighter batteries?
Okay, here's a strange question:
Can anyone give me an approximation of how many "real" vehicles would fit in a 1kmt vehicle bay? I'm trying to figure out how many AT-AT's (15m tall by 20m long) and AT-ST's (8m tall by 6m long) would fit in one.
Cheers,
Christopher
When I have done star wars ships, I have always used range 9 rof 3 - pen 1 - dmg 1
I assume that the high rof is just multiple cannons firing at the same time.
Range 9 means that the weapons outrange the fighter class weapons by 800%.
Even in Return of the Jedi... the capital ships were extremely close before they started firing on each other.
As far as Ion Cannons are concerned, I count them as the lasers with the no hull damage weapon mod.
Finally, the real difference between lasers and Turbo Lasers (at least to me) is range... I give the lasers a range 3 or 6.... although you can give the Turbo lasers a pen of 2 to simulate their higher impact power......
John
You're right, replying to yourself IS a bad habbit.......
For Star Destroyers, which don't have lasers, I use more than one bank of identical weapons.... in this case, turbo lasers. Especially since the spreadsheet limits you to 11 weapons per bank.
John
Makes sense - I hadn't digested the fighter rules yet!
I had another epiphany, however. It's easy to visualize a PEN of 2 as a twin gun mount (1 aiming process, but two hits), and a ROF of 2 as a section of 2 gun mounts ... and of course a combined ROF/PEN 2 as a section of 2 twin gun mounts. This will help a lot when rationalizing the large numbers of guns in the Star Wars batteries.
How about multiple ROF 2 Repeaters as anti-fighter batteries?
Well, that's a darn neat idea, it has the benefit of being anti fighter at the same time it's a good anti ship weapon too...
I've always thought of ROF as "how many barrels"
Actually, it seems to me a bit easier to standardize the weapons into 'batteries', consisting of an abstract-but-large number of gun mounts. Thus, a Nebulon-B would have the same 'turbolaser batteries' as a Star Destroyer, just fewer of them, and likely on different firing arcs.
But people have been using this idea, just never stated quite so plainly. Here's what I propose for the basic weapons systems of Star Wars -- bearing in mind three constants:
1) Laser Cannons are quite short ranged.
2) In all the computer type games I've played, torpedos and missiles outrange cannons and turbolasers, but only by a smidgen, and then they're inaccurate/likely to be shot down.
3) There are only five basic weapons. I'm not well versed enough in Star Wars stuff to know of any more, but people are welcome to chip in.
I'm still unsure about how the missiles are represented, appreciate inputs. But running some trials, at TL0, these numbers seem to let me fit about the right 'scales' of firepower onto ships -- hence, a Star Destroyer can fit eight ABCD Turbolaser Batteries, some ion cannons, and some concussion launchers, along with Armor Plating (c'mon!) and some fighters and all that.
Laser Battery (7.2 SU)
(E) R3 4+ 2 1 1 Re-Rolls To-Hit Dice
Turbolaser Battery (42 SU)
(E) R6 4+ 2 2 2
Ion Cannon Battery (30.24 SU)
(E) R6 5+ 2 2 2 Halves Shields /No Hull Dmg
Concussion Missile Launcher Battery. (11.9 SU)
(B) R7 5+ 2 1 1 Variable PEN
Proton Torpedo Launcher Battery (48.3 SU)
(B) R7 4+ 2 2 1 Increased DMG
EDITED: File removed, replaced by the Imperial Shipyard and Republic Shipyard files in following messages.
EDITED: TIE Interceptors and TIE Bombers should be only 2 Flights each.
Here's my work so far: an Imperial class Star Destroyer. I thought I would start off with the biggest and smallest and see how they look. Next up is probably a Corellian Corvette.
The only point of discrepancy with "canon" stats is that I am counting Tractor Beams as Laser Cannons. This works out pretty well, as most of the ships with Tractor Beam batteries didn't have Laser Cannons, and it makes sense that ships would have these close defense weapons.
Let me know how this monster looks - does it make "Starmada sense" in terms of gameplay?
Cheers,
Christopher
Gents,
I've finished the initial run through the basic Star Wars ships, and have organized them into seperate Imperial and Republic "Shipyard" files.
EDIT: see the message below for the actual files!
There are still a few things that seem a bit off, particularly:
1. Most SW ships are apparently pigs in space, with speeds usually ranging from 2-4 with a few 5's. Ships that you would think would be faster are rated lower, big boys are rated similarly to the smaller ships, etc. This might need some adjustment for gameplay issues. On the other hand, remember that Leia's Corellian Corvette (and even the Millenium Falcon) apparantly can't outrun an Imperator class Star Destroyer.
2. Due to the way the Starmada math works, there are some Hull sizes that don't seem quite right, but that's probably due to the fact that most of these ships are overloaded with weapons.
All comments appreciated!
Cheers,
Christopher
EDITED: These are the SAME files as the previous xls files posted here. They are just zipped for easier downloading. Well, okay, there was 1 change: I made the Republic fighter types "Long Ranged" to reflect their hyperdrives.
Cheers,
Christopher
Fixed...
I thought some might find this scan of the relative Star Wars ship sizes useful - it's from the old WEG sourcebooks.
PS - the size limit on .zip files is still 256 - maybe increasing it to even 512 would help with uploading big Excel sheets?
Cheers,
Christopher
<<<EDIT>>>
Well, those ships were purty, but, unfortunately, they were also copyrighted by some other person, so I have reluctantly deleted them
-- jim
EDIT: Sorry about that - I didn't even think twice about the copyright issues. - Christopher
PS - the size limit on .zip files is still 256 - maybe increasing it to even 512 would help with uploading big Excel sheets?
Limit is now 1 MB.
Try not to abuse it.
Hello,
I actually registered today, just found this place. (Thanks to Dean at SCN)
I'm currently trying to make 1:20,000 scale Star Wars Capital ships. In doing that I need to start coming up with game stats for them. I was a big Full Thrust guy, and recently I picked up the Starmada rules and have taken a liking to them for various reasons. Anyway I fleshed out my Imperial ships for Starmada last summer. Now I should say that I hadn't really played Starmada a ton and I can see now that I need to make some adjustment to my designs.
(Like scaling back ranges and adding multiples of equipment.)
You can find this first stab of designs on this page:
http://www.knightwire.com/imperial.html
I basically used two main sources for my ships. A fan complilated ship list called the Star Wars Ship Compendium:
http://warlords.swrebellion.com/compendium.htm
It has a comprehensive listing with a unified eye to the designs. The other source I used to get some details on weapons was the Ships and Vessels book from the D20 Star Wars RPG from WOTC.
As you can see from my ship list I positioned the ISD as a Battleship that is considered the mainstay of the fleet and scaled everything from there. As far as weapon batteries go, the ISD I has 60 Heavy Turbolaser Cannons. I just divided that by roughly 10 in most cases to get a number of batteries in Starmada that felt right. I fudged the Ion cannons a litle differently again to get the right feel. As you can see, I need to adjust the ranges. I just used drones for capital ship Concusion Torpedos because it seemed to fit better than any battery weapon. I created special equipment for the Tractor Beams and Gravity Well Projectors some ships have. At some point I was going to make up rules for them to have some effect on the ships abilities.
These aren't perfect designs and need the polish of game play, but I like how they translate the Star ars feel to Starmada.
I haven't really seen this 'shipyard' spreadsheet before. I think I will have to play with it some as it does a great job of grouping the nationalistic things together.
I'm currently in the proccess of making the second miniature for the Imperials. All I've done so far is the Allegiance Class, so I have a lot of work to do before I was planning to polish this up.
Any comments are welcome.
Indy
Can I steal that beautiful arc diagram and make a bigger one to repost in the "need an arc diagram" thread?
Can I steal that beautiful arc diagram and make a bigger one to repost in the "need an arc diagram" thread?
I think I still have the large original. I'll look around and get it to you.
I can rebuild it. so I only need your permission.
I'm hard at work on a good system for this Star Wars thing, and I'll soon start making counters for the various ships. However, I've basically come up with three approaches and worked out the major iconic ships for each.
1) The 'Star Wars is about huge impressive fleets' approach. In this, I used the various technical sites on the web as guides to the relative types and amounts of firepower on ships, not actual numbers. In this scale, it's actual possible to bring a full scale fleet to the table, with one or two Star Destroyers, etc, at under 2,000 - 2,500 points.
2) The 'Star Wars is about vicious and heroic mid size actions' approach. Fighters are more deadly and expensive, and a single Star Destroyer with fighters runs roughly 1,700 points. I hewed a little closer to the 'actual' weapons types and numbers on vessels here.
3) The 'by the books' method. In this setup, I actually had to set all the tech levels to +2 to get everything to work out. A single Mon Cal runs to almost 2,000+ points with fighters, Star Destroyers more -- but smaller ships 'feel' more realistic and managable.
Which one do you all think I should make my final approach? I'll build a formal set of XLS and counters for it...
-Adso
Well BrotherAdso, already managed to do all that??? great work!!!
And since I also planned to build counters for this, I would love to see your work too....
Your approach is really interesting.
About #3: a single Mon Calamari cruiser is 2000+ points? seems a lot. But I would like a more detailed explanation about the "but smaller ships 'feel' more realistic and managable" part.....
About #2: seems right, since when you are "in character" as a single pilot, or as a common character in any SW movie, you see space battles like that.... but.....
About #1: That is the one that gets my vote. For me, Starmada is a game of big ships, and SW space battles always involve a LOT of BIG ships. You see really big ships with tiny little fighters all around.....(I love the starting space battle from EpIII). And that way, you can always combine several kinds of ships in order to use their special weapons.
Sure fighters are important for tactical reasons (as all SW computer games have showed us), but that is already covered by Starmada rules. So I am willing to see a lot of ships on the table....
Big ships in SW are really slow and do not maneuver very quickly (space battles in Star Trek or Babylon 5 are sooo different....). Does your approach take this into account?
I also use the following site for my scratch builds
http://warlords.swrebellion.com/compendium.htm
there is an image section, and there are beautiful 3D cads that are perfect for scratchbuilders.
It's where I have been getting ideas for some of the figs I have been making.
John
I can rebuild it. so I only need your permission.
You got it.
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