• From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,578

Topic: Print-on-Demand report

Well, I finally got my copy of Defiance, and I must say I'm thrilled with the quality of the work: the writing, the layout, the graphics are all superb. (YEs, I'd seen the PDF, but it didn't do the 250-page book justice.)

Also, the print quality is very high, and the binding looks to be solid.

Unfortunately, the book was set up as 8.25" x 10.75", and I told the POD provider to print it that way. It came as 8.5" x 11"... which is fine on the interior; you can't even tell.

But on the cover, there's a white band running down the outside edge, where the graphic stopped (yes, there was a bleed provided, but it appears that the POD provider cropped it at 8.25".)

This makes no sense; why would you print something at 8.5" yet crop the cover image at 8.25"?

It's a small issue, hardly worth mentioning, but I am a perfectionist. Has anyone else noticed this, or is it just a problem because mine is a "proof copy"?

Dan

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website

  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 811

Re: Print-on-Demand report

I ordered a copy of VBAM and itcame to me without a problem, the cover is nice, there is but one small alyout problem that I assume is because the spine was too thick in whatever program was used to design the cover.  Interior is fine and all else seems of fairly decent quality.

I think the cover is a lttle flimsy, but it should hold up for both times I play the game.

jim

  • Registered: 2005-04-03
  • Posts: 68

Re: Print-on-Demand report

jimbeau wrote:

I ordered a copy of VBAM and itcame to me without a problem, the cover is nice, there is but one small alyout problem that I assume is because the spine was too thick in whatever program was used to design the cover.  Interior is fine and all else seems of fairly decent quality.

I haven't ordered a copy of the Campaign Guide through Lulu yet -- what production error is there on the cover? Or is this a layout error found throughout the book?

BTW, I am looking forward to seeing what the Grand Fleets POD book looks like. I shall report on the print when it arrives! smile

-Tyrel

  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 811

Re: Print-on-Demand report

AH,

well I learned from Dan that the spine is calculated by Lulu, so you're off the hook smile

it's like they put a black background and the cover wasn't sized right to do the bleed

anyway, it's not significant enough to even matter really, it does not affect my enjoyment of the book at all.


jim

  • Registered: 2005-04-03
  • Posts: 68

Re: Print-on-Demand report

Phew! I was hoping there wasn't a problem there. I know that the Boltian/Kuissian book originally had a cover error through Lulu (pre-RPGNow/Lulu going public, when we were doing some side testing), but I didn't know how the main book ended up turning out from them. I bought a copy of each of our source books through them, just to check those, but haven't went and ordered the Guide itself yet.

One thing I noticed on our books was that the covers seemed to be washed out a bit, likely because of the laminant, but that is fairly minor. That and where the VBAM look is the drab, industrial motif (complete with diamond plate!), it kind of fits smile

I am very interested in seeing how that Grand Fleets cover turns out to be honest, as it will let me see whether it is a CMS problem on my end with the VBAM books. That and I really wanted a copy of that came in print for reference smile

If Dan ever gets the other core books (S:X or SX: Brigade) available through the system, he is guaranteed at least one sale -- though he has hard copies sitting around already, so it will probably be awhile (and I am too lazy to hunt the other copies down!).

BTW, though it is not really consistent with the thread topic, it is nice getting an e-mail digest of the forum messages forwarded on to the Yahoo Group, as then I knew that someone had replied to this thread. Of course, Dan is giving me forum-envy and I will need to figure out more about phpBB to compete! wink

-Tyrel

  • Registered: 2005-03-28
  • Posts: 480

Re: Print-on-Demand report

It really REALLY sucks that I'd have to get a PoD copy shipped here at great expense. I'm having little luck so far finding online a company here in oz that would print Defiance economically. Must look harder.

  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 811

Re: Print-on-Demand report

well, the last time I sent something to Australia, it cost like $6.00(USD).

It took a month to get there, but the old guy that swam it over claimed there were sharks.

jim

  • Registered: 2005-03-28
  • Posts: 480

Re: Print-on-Demand report

Most companies list a stack of options for US postage but insist on Airmail First Class internationally, or more. I just got a small item mailed for a few bucks by an ebay vendor, but only because I asked very nicely for a cheaper option.

However, RPGNOW wants $10 US for postage, which immediately brings me to my favourite three-letter acronym, starting with Whiskey, followed closely by a Tango, and ending with a great big Foxtrot. And a question-mark. Mind you, postage for books etc via airmail-whatever-it-is can be quite expensive, as they're big and heavy.

  • Registered: 2005-04-03
  • Posts: 68

Re: Print-on-Demand report

The $10 USD shipping for international packages is a Lulu thing, I found. Shipments to Canada gets screwed similarly, so you are definitely not alone.

In cases like that, it would probably be best to convince someone in the states to purchase an extra copy (or two) of the books from Lulu, and then turn around and re-mail them to you. But even then, the cost of shipping will probably hit the $10 mark, so it probably won't help anyone out.

How bad do they try hitting you for having multiple POD books in a single order? It might be a case of ordering everything you want, not to mention everything any of your buddies want, and try to save on shipping a bit there.

What's really funny is if you try ordering the books directly from Lulu; by default, their most expensive shipping rate comes up first. Imagine the shock and horror of getting to the end of the shopping process and seeing a $25 shipping charge in the basket smile Then I realized it was because of the shipping method. But it scared me!

-Tyrel

  • Registered: 2005-03-31
  • Posts: 59

Re: Print-on-Demand report

cricket wrote:

Also, the print quality is very high, and the binding looks to be solid.

I gotta get me a copy of that! :wink:

cricket wrote:

But on the cover, there's a white band running down the outside edge, where the graphic stopped (yes, there was a bleed provided, but it appears that the POD provider cropped it at 8.25".)

I hope that it wasn't an error on my part - I did put that bleed on the cover, but was it enough? Or perhaps my PDF conversion was faulty, and  excluded it? sad

Josh

  • From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,578

Re: Print-on-Demand report

grendeljd wrote:

I hope that it wasn't an error on my part - I did put that bleed on the cover, but was it enough? Or perhaps my PDF conversion was faulty, and  excluded it? sad

Nope. If there was an "error" on MJ12's behalf, it was mine, since I formatted the cover before uploading it to Lulu.

However, I still say the ultimate fault is the printers', since they formatted the cover for an 8.25" x 10.75" book, but printed it as 8.5" x 11".

sad

Dan

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website

  • Registered: 2005-03-31
  • Posts: 59

Re: Print-on-Demand report

cricket wrote:

However, I still say the ultimate fault is the printers', since they formatted the cover for an 8.25" x 10.75" book, but printed it as 8.5" x 11".

sad

Dan

Yeah, that kinda stands out as a major source of error... did you say previously that they *only* print 8.5" x 11"? Or can they do odd sizes, but just erroneously slapped it on 8.5 x 11?

Josh

  • From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,578

Re: Print-on-Demand report

grendeljd wrote:

Yeah, that kinda stands out as a major source of error... did you say previously that they *only* print 8.5" x 11"? Or can they do odd sizes, but just erroneously slapped it on 8.5 x 11?

Well, initially it said they could accept files that varied from the standard size by up to 1/4"... but now it appears they only accept 8.5" x 11" or 6" x 9".

Huh.

Dan

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website

  • Registered: 2005-04-03
  • Posts: 68

Re: Print-on-Demand report

cricket wrote:

Well, initially it said they could accept files that varied from the standard size by up to 1/4"... but now it appears they only accept 8.5" x 11" or 6" x 9".

-------------

I believe that the 1/4" variation is only in relation to bleeds. So you could put up to 1/4" bleeds on whatever project you submitted, but not anything more than that. Otherwise, yes, the book size is limited to 8.5" x 11" or 6" x 9".

I know there are some issues with Lulu as far as their instructions go. The covers were one place where I wasn't quite sure what the green bar that went around was trying to tell me -- whether that was the bleed, or would be chopped off, or what. But you live and learn! Part of the reason it is good to setup a secondary Lulu account just to test some of the things out to make sure they will work right when RPGNow gets around to inputting the information (I hope that goes smoothly).

One other benefit in a roundabout way of setting up a separate Lulu store is that you can also offer alternative printings for the customers, be it spiral instead of perfect bound or full-color instead of just a greyscale printing.

Like any printer (POD or offset), it takes a little bit of time to get used to how they want files processed. But in Lulu's case, you can at least get a reasonable idea of what they *think* they have to print off of! smile

-Tyrel

  • Registered: 2005-04-03
  • Posts: 68

Re: Print-on-Demand report

I just thought that I would pass along word that my copy of Grand Fleets from Lulu came in today, and it looks good! Dan, did you use RGB or CMYK color on that cover, because it came out looking very nice.

The interiors are nice as well, and everything seems crisp and clear. The paper and binding quality is the same as the other Lulu books that I have seen so far, so that is all par for the course.

A really nice looking book!

-Tyrel

  • From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,578

Re: Print-on-Demand report

Tyrel Lohr wrote:

I just thought that I would pass along word that my copy of Grand Fleets from Lulu came in today, and it looks good! Dan, did you use RGB or CMYK color on that cover, because it came out looking very nice.

All of our covers are in RGB.

Can you tell me if the book is 8.5x11 or 8.25x10.75?

Dan

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website

  • Registered: 2005-04-03
  • Posts: 68

Re: Print-on-Demand report

cricket wrote:

All of our covers are in RGB.

Can you tell me if the book is 8.5x11 or 8.25x10.75?

Dan

--------------------------

I just thought I would check on the cover issue. I don't know if it is the laminant that they use on the covers or what, but the covers on our books just seem a bit washed out or lightened compared to what they should be.

The book is 8.5x11. Lulu only does two or three sizes, to they either scale up or down as desired. I have noticed that the books that we had printed through another printer for distribution print at the smaller size, so it is an oddity.

-Tyrel

  • From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,578

Re: Print-on-Demand report

Tyrel Lohr wrote:

The book is 8.5x11. Lulu only does two or three sizes, to they either scale up or down as desired.

Huh. And there are no problems with the cover on Grand Fleets?

Good to hear, but puzzling... makes me wonder why there was an issue with my copy of Defiance. hmm

Dan

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website

  • From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,578

Re: Print-on-Demand report

I can officially report that the problems with POD were a result of our files; they were the wrong dimensions, and apparently Lulu's automation couldn't cope.

I revised our files to fit 8.5x11, and got my copy of The Merchant War yesterday -- it is SWEET. smile

Life is good again...

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website

  • Registered: 2005-03-31
  • Posts: 59

Re: Print-on-Demand report

Hey Dan, when I am able to redo the Defiance cover [have you read my private email regarding my computer woes yet?], should i just make it fit 8.5 x 11 instead of 8.25 x 10.75? Save us all some trouble?

Josh