Topic: RPG possibilities

Crappo...
neutral
All of this talk of RPG *stuff* has gotten me to thinking about the possibilities of using Clash of Swords, or something similar, for the basic game mechanics for an RPG.
So I thought I'd post some numbers to show you the "costs" of the various dice combinations I'm using in CoS.
The following table shows the "rank" of the 25 dice combinations I'm using for CoS.

Dice Multiplier Table
Dice    Dice Multiplier (DieMult)
1d4    1.0
2d4    2.0
3d4    3.0
4d4    4.0
5d4    5.0
1d6    2.0
2d6    4.0
3d6    6.0
4d6    8.0
5d6    10.0
1d8    3.0
2d8    6.0
3d8    9.0
4d8    12.0
5d8    15.0
1d10    4.0
2d10    8.0
3d10    12.0
4d10    16.0
5d10    20.0
1d12    5.0
2d12    10.0
3d12    15.0
4d12    20.0
5d12    25.0

The dice multiplier (DieMult) is one of the multipliers used for calculating the point cost of a model in CoS. What the above data is showing is the relative worth of the various dice combinations.
For example, 2d6 has a DieMult value of 4.0, while 1d10 also has a value of 4.0. This indicates that, based on the mechanics I'm using, that those two combinations are very similar in worth.
As the majority of stats in CoS use this multiplier table, for RPG purposes these multipliers could probably could be used directly as points when building a character.
The stats using the table are: CC, RC, Armor, and Magic "Defense."
Spells are also assigned dice.
Currently Morale uses a different value, although these values are also ranked in a similar manner. All movement is in inches, which could also be directly converted to charatcer points.

I've put together the following table to help in model design.

# CC dice+++Weapon size+++CC die type+++Training/skill
1dx+++Dagger+++xd4+++Untrained AND limited skill
2dx+++Smaller weapons+++xd6+++Untrained OR limited skill
3dx+++Medium weapons+++xd8+++Average
4dx+++Large weapons+++xd10+++Trained OR skilled
5dx+++Giant weapons+++xd12+++Trained AND skilled

So the number in front of the die type can be thought of as representing the size or type of weapon a model has.
The die type (dx) represents the weapon skill, or CC skill, of a model.

Let's look at an average fighter type.
We'll assume a typical sword, with average training: so 3d8, or 9 points.

# Armor dice+++Armor type+++Armor dice+++Defensive skill 
1dx+++None+++xd4+++Untrained AND limited skill
2dx+++Leather+++xd6+++Untrained OR limited skill
3dx+++Chainmail+++xd8+++Average
4dx+++Partial plate+++xd10+++Trained OR skilled
5dx+++Full plate+++xd12+++Trained AND skilled

The number in front of the die type can be thought of as representing the type of armor a model has, or how tough a model is. A shield will typically add one additional die to the armor dice.
The die type (dx) represents the defensive skill of the model.

So in getting back to our fighter, we'll assume leather armor with a shield: 2d8+1d8=3d8, or again 9 points.

In order to save time, I won't post the magic table, but we'll assume below average magic defense: so 2d6, or 4 points.

I'll leave out morale for now, as it's usually not used in RPGs.
For movement, we'll assume an average speed of 4 inches, which we'll assume translates directly to 4 points.

Wounds haven't been touched on yet, but they are also a direct multiplier for point costing. So I guess I'd convert them over directly as points.
We'll assume, for RPG purposes, that an average model has six wounds it can take before being killed. So we'll give our fighter the average number of wounds (6), or 6 points.

That completes the basic model, assuming no special abilities.
It looks like it costs 32 character build points.
However, it would be very easy to put a lower limit on a beginning character, so that one or two dice are used primarily used in the stat line.
Does this approach intrigue anyone?
Kevin

Re: RPG possibilities

Hey Kevin...
I still stand on my original impression of COS - but will go over it again. I'm rather clueless on weekends - midshift just takes the stuffin outta me...
:-)

I like the fact that you've got some costing system worked out.

Any thoughts about Special Abilities?

Re: RPG possibilities

thedugan wrote:

I like the fact that you've got some costing system worked out.

I'm fairly happy with the way the point-costing is turning out.
Of course, just how accurate it is is anyone's guess.
big_smile

thedugan wrote:

Any thoughts about Special Abilities?

Right now I've got 72 abilities listed in the chapter on abilities.
While not all of them are combat related, most do pertain to combat in some way. So for an RPG a lot of other non-combat related abilities would certainly have to be included. And as of yet, I haven't put much thought into those kinds of abilities. But I don't think it'd be very hard at all to come up with a rather extensive list.
Kevin

Re: RPG possibilities

underling wrote:
thedugan wrote:

Any thoughts about Special Abilities?

Right now I've got 72 abilities listed in the chapter on abilities.
While not all of them are combat related, most do pertain to combat in some way. So for an RPG a lot of other non-combat related abilities would certainly have to be included. And as of yet, I haven't put much thought into those kinds of abilities. But I don't think it'd be very hard at all to come up with a rather extensive list.

In my forays into creating a list of skills/abilities for RPG's, that's turned into a REAL problem - I tend to overcomplicate it.

You might take a look at 'cliches' in RISUS, D&D Monster Manual, and other such things for some off-the-wall troops types/units. Might also give you some ideas for spells/abilities.

You need an 'immobile' stat for things like Trebchets in the War Machines section. They had to be broken down and put on wagons, and the general direction they pointed was where they tended to stay during the battle.

Re: RPG possibilities

I was looking over the rule set (I'm still in the middle of it actually) and I was thinking about the RPG and warband usage.  The thought of making a character with static weaponry (armor as well) will require a lot of re-calculation as the character finds better (aka magical) items.  This might be hard to explain what I'm thinking about so bear with me...

I would say for the RPG that the character have a value for each weapon type (the simplest division would be melee and ranged, but for more options, it could be simple, martial, complex melee & simple, martial and complex ranged).  The value would be translated into the CC score depending on the weapon held.  This assumes that the player/character will always have the best weaponry and armor available.

For example: Thrud the barbarian has a d8 code in his axe skill.  With his trusty magical battle axe (level 3), he would roll 3d8.  If that weapon would somehow get lost (or destroyed), he carries a level 1 hand axe which would allow him to roll 1d8.

All weapons and armor would have their own 'averaged' value that would add to the points of the character.  So lets say that the magical battle axe cost 9 points (all numbers made up and not 'calculated').  So for any character to use that would add 9 points to the total cost of the model. 

It makes the point system a little shaky, but I don't think it would be that 'off'.

Thoughts?
-Bren

Re: RPG possibilities

JYGRO said...
>I was looking over the rule set (I'm still in the middle of it actually) and
>I was thinking about the RPG and warband usage.  The thought of >making a character with static weaponry (armor as well) will require a
>lot of re-calculation as the character finds better (aka magical) items.  >This might be hard to explain what I'm thinking about so bear with me...

>I would say for the RPG that the character have a value for each
>weapon type (the simplest division would be melee and ranged, but for
>more options, it could be simple, martial, complex melee & simple, >martial and complex ranged).  The value would be translated into the
>CC score depending on the weapon held.  This assumes that the
>player/character will always have the best weaponry and armor >available.

>For example: Thrud the barbarian has a d8 code in his axe skill.  With
>his trusty magical battle axe (level 3), he would roll 3d8.  If that weapon >would somehow get lost (or destroyed), he carries a level 1 hand axe >which would allow him to roll 1d8.

>All weapons and armor would have their own 'averaged' value that
>would add to the points of the character.  So lets say that the magical >battle axe cost 9 points (all numbers made up and not 'calculated'). 
>So for any character to use that would add 9 points to the total cost of >the model. 

>It makes the point system a little shaky, but I don't think it would be
>that 'off'.

Actually, I think it's a nice way to make the switch to a 'Personality Driven' game, vs a wargame.

Now all we need is to convert an Arduin Dungeon over and give 'er a test run....
:-)