Topic: More ship construction questions

1) Can a ship mount 2 or more keel bombards?

2) Where is it written in the rulebooks that primary guns must have equal or higher damage than secondary guns? Could someone build a ship that has:

P: 4d10(x2) and S: 3d12(x3)

If so, presumably the rules about available guns to shoot in each arc (or in the case of the bombard, the very limited arc) would suggest to a player that this isn't a good idea?

Thanks for your help!

Michael.

Re: More ship construction questions

1) I have no idea, but I think that because most ships only have one keel, they'd only have one keel bombard.

2) The Iron Stars rulebook specifically states that secondary batteries may only have x1 or x2 damage values. You could, I think, mount longer-ranged secondary batteries, but we're talking, primarily, about naval-style etherships, and no naval ship ever employed 9.2in guns as primary weapons and 12in as secondary weapons.

Re: More ship construction questions

Excellent! That is what I need to hear, but on what page, specifically? I've not seen it.

I'm not asking for myself really; I've got a gentleman in my gaming group who is very much of the "if it doesn't say I can't, it must mean I can" sort. Very annoying! I dread allowing him to build his own ships.

Though, as far as keel bombards go, think of mounting a double barrelled shotgun under a keel. They'd fit quite well.

                          OVO

Re: More ship construction questions

1) The intent is for only one keel bombard per ship.

2) Secondaries should have a lower damage value than the primaries.

Having said that, if you break both these guidelines, your ships should still be balanced.

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: More ship construction questions

Page 8 of Iron Stars. It doesn't explicitly say that you CANT mount d12 in secondary and d8 in primary, but its in the spirit of the rules. And, if you have a player that tries to find loopholes in the construction rules, either force him to play with already-generated vessels from the three books, vessels the rest of the group has designed, or don't let him play at all.

Re: More ship construction questions

I would let him stow his guns how he wants, as the fact that these are ether ships means they aren't necessarily going to follow traditional wet navy guidelines. 

Secondaries have limits.  You can't bring as many to bear on a target as you can with primaries.  If he wants to go that route, why not?  He's just dispersing his own firepower.

As for keel bombards and special kit, I bet you can use common sense to smell out a cheesy ship design.  If he's creating something JUST to be a pain in your a--, then don't let him do it.

Re: More ship construction questions

One more question, of a slightly different but related sort.

Page 8 (thank you, murt) has torpedo values from d4 to d12 and damage values from x1 to x5. Are these values related in any fashion?
Or, can you mix and match?

I see that the battleship HMES Bantam carries d8(x4) torpedoes, and the Beta-class destroyer has d6(x2) torpedoes. Is the limiting  factor for torpedoes for all ship classes solely a function of cost?

Instead of the Beta-class DD carrying 3/d6(x2) torpedoes for a cost of 7.2 SU, could it carry 1/d10(x3) torpedo (cost = 6 SU)?

Most appreciated!

Michael.

Now back to the actual thread:

I don't know what it is with this guy. If I don't explicitly say you cannot do this, his brain thinks "I can do this". For my own play, I understand the rules as are and for some of my friends the spirit of the rules is self-explanatory. But for this one guy, I need a black and white clarification of the rules. For every single game we play!

I haven't introduced IS to the group yet; I am mentally preparing. Mentally  recalling the annoying days of playing Star Fleet Battles against some broken unbalanced ships this fellow has dredged up from some unofficial website, despite asking all players to follow certain guidelines when choosing ships. He's hardwired to find loopholes.

I like the ruleset for IS. I don't think it can be corrupted even by this gentleman I play against. But clarity shall be my avatar.

Re: More ship construction questions

Torpedo sizing is more of a design ideology, at least IMO.  The number a ship can carry is limited by the size of the torpedo vs space available, yes.  But that isn't necessarily the limiting issue. 

Example:  The Spaniards tend to use d10(x2) torps almost exclusively from other torpedo designs (at least so far) since they have a good hit chance, decent damage, and are space efficient to their way of thinking.  They could pack in a greater number of d6 or d8 torps, but these would be less accurate and shorter ranged from a generalized perspective.


To take a crack at answering the question about substituting torps with the Beta DD.  Yes, you could do that...with 1.2 SU left over for other things possibly, creating a variant Beta, though the points cost of the ship will need to be re-calculated since the offensive rating changes.

Re: More ship construction questions

I tend to go for more damage potential for my torpedoes, sacrificing range (unless, of course, I can get d12(x5) torpedoes on the ship...:D)

Re: More ship construction questions

Short range, high damage torpedoes are great for FACs.

You move first, shoot first.  Capital ships can only respond after the fact.  So if you lurk outside of effective gun range until you're ready to race in there, you can essentially walk your torpedoes into an enemy hull at point blank range.

IE -- the Italian FAC published in Southern Front has two D6 (X4) torpedoes.

As torpedoes cut armor in half (rounded up), that means even an armor 5 vessel has the potential of being hurt.  An armor 4 ship, if targeted by torpedoes at less than 2", is going to be hit on a 5+.  Rolling two dice, that means you have about a 66% chance of drawing blood. 

Torpedoes also roll D12 on the damage track, which usually means all four points of damage are going straight into the hull.  You hit a ship that gives you three VPs per hull hit, and even if the FAC dies after its attack run, you've won more victory points than you've lost.

So that's the route I go with the attack craft.

With destroyers, I try and pick the longest reach torpedo I can.  I use destroyers to supplement the firepower of bigger ships.  And the longer they can reach, the more flexibility I have in deciding where to put them.  It's not really like destroyers can do a lot of good with their guns.

With capital ships, like the Hunyadi, I choose a torpedo that compliments its armor and guns.  With an armor rating of 4, the heavy cruiser is going to force most enemy ships to come within 5" to hurt it.  Around there, its torpedoes -- which are slightly longer reaching -- stand a chance of drawing blood. 

IS's fold up counters meant it was the only mini game I was able to buy and play in about the same day.  And it goes to the local hobby shop at least two weekends out of the month  big_smile

Re: More ship construction questions

frigatesfan wrote:

Page 8 (thank you, murt) has torpedo values from d4 to d12 and damage values from x1 to x5. Are these values related in any fashion?
Or, can you mix and match?

They are not related at all. You can have a d4/x5 torp, or a d12/x1; it's up to you.

I like the ruleset for IS. I don't think it can be corrupted even by this gentleman I play against. But clarity shall be my avatar.

A laudable goal, but I doubt the issues your friend has brought up will be a big deal. The rules explicitly state that primaries can have a x1 multiplier; secondaries are allowed to be x2 -- so I don't think you can keep him from setting his weapons up that way.

Regarding the multiple keel bombards, there's nothing explicit in the rules about multiples, but having two or three of them on a ship won't unbalance the game -- that's the beauty of the combat rating. You can put whatever you want on there, but you'll have to pay for it...

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: More ship construction questions

Whoops, I played torpedoes as rolling d20s for damage location...

Oh dear...:D