• From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,578

Topic: Brody's Annual 1914: Etherships of the World

Okay... I think I've decided that the next IS supplement will be a ship book, with little to no actual fluff. Easier to do, and will help us flesh out the state of the world before the Great War.

Obviously, it's difficult to say we'll be "historically accurate" considering the impact of the Martian Invasion and the fact that we've got etherships to begin with... but it seems to me that the relative sizes of the world's fleets should be roughly akin to the relative sizes of their historical sea-going navies.

Having said that, how deep should we go?

It's entirely possible that I can open up my Jane's Fighting Ships of WW1 and pull the sizes of every navy on Earth, and then create IS fleets for each-- that might be cool, but do we really need to give an ether-dreadnought to every country that had a yacht with a 3" gun on the bow?

So I guess I'm asking, what's a reasonable "cutoff" for nations to have an ether fleet of any appreciable size?

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website

  • From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,578

Re: Brody's Annual 1914: Etherships of the World

In an attempt to answer my own question, here are the navies that I can find who had (or almost had) "dreadnought"-type battleships in 1914-1915. It would seem reasonable to presume that countries with the wherewithal to acquire such ships would also have some type of ether fleet:

Argentina
Australia*
Austria-Hungary
Brazil
Britain
Chile
Germany
Greece*
Japan
Italy
France*
Netherlands*
New Zealand*
Russia (Red)
Russia (White)
Spain
Turkey
United States*

*indicates a country not yet represented "officially" in Iron Stars.

Any others? Does this seem like an exhaustive list of who "should" be in space?

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website

  • From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,578

Re: Brody's Annual 1914: Etherships of the World

kevinsmith67206 wrote:

> I don't think there should necessarily be a correlation
> between wet navy dreadnought capability and ether capability.
> In other words, it might just be a little harder designing or
> procurring ether ships than it would be designing or
> procurring wet navy ships.
> So to answer your question, I don't think you should use
> Janes (or Conways, which I personally like better smile) to
> judge a nation's ether capabilities.

Point taken. But the size of a nation's wet navy is a good indication of how much it is able (and willing) to devote to its military -- so I think a correlation of some kind can be made.

I'm not saying that if a nation has 5 dreadnoughts then it should have 5 ether-dreadnoughts; I am saying that a nation that was able to put dreadnoughts "in the field" is likely to be able to have the resources for an ether fleet as well.

That having been said, we've already broken this particular analogy, as China is in space in IS, but did not have a sizeable navy at the time in question.

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website

  • From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,578

Re: Brody's Annual 1914: Etherships of the World

kevinsmith67206 wrote:

> That having been said, we've already broken this particular
> analogy, as China is in space in IS, but did not have a
> sizeable navy at the time in question.
> ==========
>
> Ah, but that's just because the term "torpedo junk" was too
> good to pass up.

Indeed it is... smile

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website

  • Registered: 2005-03-30
  • Posts: 272

Re: Brody's Annual 1914: Etherships of the World

My two cents:

I'd argue that landlocked countries might be *more* likely to spend on ether ships, since they don't have a wet navy to worry about.  Which would put Switzerland and Peru on the list as well.  And is there any hope of getting listings of the mysterious pirate craft (no doubt belonging to the World Crime League) that have been reported by some convoy escorts?

I can see going light on fluff, but some brief description and analysis of the various design doctrines and ship classes would be in order.  The real Jane's is a bit of a dull read, and you don't want that in a gaming supplement, no matter how "crunchy" it is...long listings of just ship stats are, well, boring.  Something like the writeups in the Full Thrust Fleet Books would be about right.

Rich

  • Registered: 2022-11-15
  • Posts: 1,424

Re: Brody's Annual 1914: Etherships of the World

I just fished your off-list missive about this out of my spam filter last night.

As to China, I've no idea what direction they've taken in our discussions, I actually don't recall reading anything. Since they are in the first book, and they were 'under duress' during the period in question, I'd vote for them being allowed to slowly degrade into oblivion until Mao steps in...unless Chiang Kai Shreck (sp?) is something of a miracle worker and we actually want them to be in place to oppose Japan's inroads.- there's just too much to work out and I just woke up - excuse my rambling....

Dan said...
>Okay... I think I've decided that the next IS supplement will be a ship
>book, with little to no actual fluff. Easier to do, and will help us flesh out
>the state of the world before the Great War.


Might want to include a 'special rules' section, just so that the ones added in 'Merchant War' and 'Southern Front' are in one place.


As to the Fleets.....
--------------------------------------------------
Argentina - in Southern Front

Australia* - British ships with mods - like some of the Ottoman ships

Austria-Hungary in Merchant War

Brazil - in Southern Front

Britain - A mainstay - I suspect they're a bit like the Federation, in that they'll have ships in any expansive supplement. In 'Iron Stars', and all the other ones too...

Chile - in Southern Front

Germany - In Iron Stars, our equivalent of the Klingons :-)

Greece* - Use one of the smaller fleets onlist here as a basis

Japan - in Iron Stars

Italy - In Southern Front

France* - we've actually HAD French ships since before the publication of Iron Stars, but I hated the graphics, and I don't think that  the fluff and the designs were QUITE up to Dan's standards. Torpedo Boats and Martel-style BB's is what they need. I hated the Japanese graphics, but the other bits worked, so in they went...

Netherlands* - Sure, did someone create a fleet onlist? They were real wheeler-dealers at one point in their history.

New Zealand* - heh. No idea.

Russia (Red) - In Southern Front

Russia (White) - in Iron Stars

Spain - In Southern Front

Turkey - AKA 'The Ottomans' - Can we not have them fracture like they did in the real world, or is that just way outta character? In Southern Front...

United States* - Like France, they've been simmering in the background since the beginning. They use the boxy 'Monitor Hulls' that the ABC powers get in'Southern Front' (American helped them out, the box is an American design) and 'Italian Style' Battleships with more armor. I actually have a model of the USS Texas ready....

We could add ships, in order to round out fleets, in the case of the 'established Aether Powers'.....

  • Registered: 2022-11-15
  • Posts: 1,286

Re: Brody's Annual 1914: Etherships of the World

IMO- Ether ships are going to be more expensive (x1.5-3) than wet naval vessels due to the rarity of the materials involved and required technical knowledge.  With this in mind it kind of boils down to three factors to look at;

1) Technical/ Industrialization capability of the nation. 

2) National Economy (and political indifference as it may apply)

3) Resource Availability

Britain has high marks in all three categories and such has a large, technologically 'advanced' fleet.

Spain is relatively low-middle of each category and such has concentrated its resources on smaller vessels (at present) though political maneuvers have improved both areas 1 and 3 to a small degree.  The King is rather politically indifferent to the economic problems facing his country at the time (which will come paid with future events).

Mexico (just for example) in this period of time scores very low in all three categories.  One or two small ether ships may be all she could afford realistically, bought from ether capable nations without plunging the country into an economic and political crisis. 

I think that the Janes book may give a relative feel for where each navy stood in relation to these three categories if wanting to avoid researching each individual country's status of the period.  wink

  • Registered: 2006-05-03
  • Posts: 44

Re: Brody's Annual 1914: Etherships of the World

I'll second the idea that landlocked nations would be just as likely to send up Ether-ships are ones with navies.  I also wouldn't simply lock into 'ocean going dreadnaughts = space navy' system (even though I don't think all the listed countries need ether-dreadnaughts either).  For example, Belguim was just as colonially active as the Netherlands, even though they didn't emphasis naval development, and it's unlikely they would ignore the space race completely.  The altered timeline of the setting also changes some things.  For example, the 'ABC powers' cooperate much more closely in this timeline then they did in the real life.  Whats to say the Scandanavians wouldn't pull together in a similar fashion and field some sort of combined force for thier mutual benefit, for example? 

I guess in the end the real question is not 'who should be up there' but 'how many can we get before they all start to feel the same'.  Fewer more unique feeling factions is always better then a multitude of ones that don't have as much individual flavor, imho.

I'll add I'd also love ship fluff.  I can deal with the timeline not going forward, but just a book of stats seems kinda flat.  Even a couple of short paragraphs for each design would be plenty.  If you need volunteers....

-Will

  • From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,578

Re: Brody's Annual 1914: Etherships of the World

Rory Hinnen wrote:

> There's also the possibility that some countries would not
> invest in a etherfleet, even if they were interested in a
> traditional wet navy.
>
> Personally, I'd love to see fewer ships, fewer nations
> involved in ether ship building. It helps to create a feeling
> of how difficult this process really is, and that the
> etherfleets are going to be draining money from traditional
> fleets. I'd imagine some poorer nations might become even
> more interested in wet-navy building, sensing a growing
> vacuum of power on the high seas.

A valid concern, and an interesting possibility.

However, I do believe that the nations we currently have in space all have very good reasons for being there... and some others clearly have to be there as well (USA, France).

But I will try to rein in the number of combatants.

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website

  • From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,578

Re: Brody's Annual 1914: Etherships of the World

wminsing wrote:

I'll add I'd also love ship fluff.  I can deal with the timeline not going forward, but just a book of stats seems kinda flat.  Even a couple of short paragraphs for each design would be plenty.  If you need volunteers....

It was my intention to have some fluff, if not for each ship, then definitely a page or two on each fleet.

One possible way to avoid having all the fleets start to look alike is to have a contest, similar to that done for SX: Brigade. It certainly seems as though there's no lack of people willing to do up ship stats for various powers. smile

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website

  • Registered: 2005-03-29
  • Posts: 859

Re: Brody's Annual 1914: Etherships of the World

Hey, if you want a contest, Im in...:D

Is there any possibility of doing some ships belonging to other planets? I've really got my heart set on doing some Venusian ships--probably a Power tried to colonise it, got beaten back, and now the Venusians have their own designs?