Frankly, because it was easier math in the pre-spreadsheet days (there's a lot in Starmada that can be attributed to the early days... ).

At the same time, when a piece of special equipment requires a percentage of the size, it is because I assume it would take more "stuff" to get the same effect on a size 10 ship than a size 1. For example, you need more AFB to cover the hull of a larger ship, or you need more ECM equipment to mask the signature of a larger ship, etc.

True.

However, the best part about Starmada (IMHO) is that it doesn't matter!

Make all your special equipment cost 1 SU!

Reduce the space requirements of weapons by 99%!

In the end, the Combat Rating balances it all out...

CR: The Great Equalizer...

Since it came up in a recent battle...

We're trying a house rule on Anti-Fighter Batteries: they roll to hit, needing 6+ to do one point of damage, before the attacking fighters roll to hit.  The number of dice you get is equal to your undamaged hull.  Any fighters that are destroyed do not get to make the attack.

The reasoning is that bigger hulls will have more "AA" guns, especially since they allocate more space for AFB than smaller hulled-ships.  It was a last minute idea, so we haven't had a chance to try it out; but then most of our ship designs don't have AFB because they are not cost-effective.

(some time to think passes   :?  )

Hmm, this doesn't work when you move and attack with one flight at a time.  We had been moving all the flights and making one big attack.  An option to the above house rule could be that the target ship could choose to fire just some of his AA guns and save some in reserve.  The target ship has "hull" amount of anti-fighter weapons to shoot at attacking fighters per fighter phase (they could also be used to shoot at attacking drones).

Another idea came to me: bigger hull ships increase the chance of a fighter being destroyed based on the fighter attack roll.  So instead of just a 1, a fighter takes a hit on a roll of 2, or even a 3 on very large ships.  I looked at a commonly used chart (i.e., the explosion size chart) but that is too excessive.  Perhaps this might do?  Hull size/roll that destroys a fighter: 1-8/1, 9-24/2, 25+/3.

-------------------------------------------

Btw, does an attacking heavy fighter that rolls a 1 becomes destroyed or just takes 1 point of damage if the target ship has operational AFB?

Hello,
     I used to put anti-fighter batteries on all my ships, but I no longer do so.  Instead, most  of my ships are protected from fighters by either of two different secondary weapons:
     The first one is a  weapon I call "5 inch guns".  These have a range of 18, hit on 3+, are 3/1/1 with Range-based-ROF as a special weapon ability. 
The second is a weapon I call "6 Inch guns".    These have a range of 18, hit on 3+, are 3/1/1 with Rerolls-to-hit as a special weapon ability.
(nearly all of my ships' weapons have range 18; all have 3+ to hit)
I can shoot at hostile fighters long b4 they get into attack range of my ships.  And if there are no fighters or the fighters are hiding, these weapons shoot at hostile ships.
     I have a CLAA design that has 6 mounts of the "5 inch guns", 3 are in FX mounts, 3 in AX mounts.  All of my ships, including this CLAA, have  five "21 inch torpedoes".  These expendibles have a  range 18, 3+ to hit, & {Reroll to hit, Reroll Penetration, Increased damage} as special weapon abilities.  These torpedoes can devastate unshielded ships and also can do a number on fighters .  As an added feature this CLAA has a ECCM suite so that its weapons do not have a "-1" when shooting at fighters.  This 12 hull, speed five ship, which I call USS Atlanta, has worked well in dealing with hostile fighters...

Steven Gilchrist; Jacksonville, Fla, USA

The problem with active anti-fighter batteries, is that they basically become the same thing as the carronade..... but you get to choose the hexes fired in......

I rarely use AFB as they don't seem to do enough to really deter the fighters.... you basically get the same effect that your wings of fighters get, but without the ability to shoot back..... if your wing of fighters gets into a match with another wing, every 1 your opponent rolls costs him a fighter, but you still get to attack with your own... with AFB, you rely on your opponent to roll ones.......and that's it....

I'd like to see a more active anti-fighter defense, but am not entirely sure how to design one... I'll have to think about it.

John

Well then, don't use it... the more for the rest of us. I include AFB on every design.

Honestly, I wouldn't advocate for a system that shoots before fighters can attack -- this would remove the one advantage fighters have over ships (move and attack in their own phase).

I tried an idea over the last several days..... I designed 2 ships that were of equal size, and nearly equal cost. One carried 3 wings of fighters, and the other didn't, but had AFB... the ship without fighters lost every battle out of 3.... and on one of those battles never even got to engage the enemy ship, as the fighters killed it in one round, at the loss of only 1 fighter to the AFB.

I then tried the short range 3/1/1 anti fighter guns, and while they worked.... they weren't as effective as they might have been. The fighters would get in and damage a lot of them before they got to fire....even with AFB mounted again. The ability to halve the shield means that you will get about 3 dice of damage for every flight of fighters on the board, unless they are killed before they get to a target. I think the last thing we want is to have our games devolve down into he who kills the fighters first wins.....

However, on the last battle, I tried something different... during the fighter phase, I allowed the defending ship to roll 1 dice for every hull point, and on a 6 the AFB got 1 fighter... It didn't add that many die rolls, and it made sense that an anti-fighter battery would work against the fighters in their own phase of the turn....
As a balance, any dice that rolled a one, negated a one rolled by the fighter wing....

Yes, the fighters paid a slightly higher cost coming in, and I am thinking of another battle without the one rolls negating each other... but the AFB actually did apply something to that battle, and yet, unlike the carronade.. it wasn't massively deadly.

The only other really effective means of giving ships without fighter cover a counter to waves of fighters was 3/1/1 weapons with at least a range of 12, and preferrably, a range of 18. That way, you have a chance of thinning out the ranks of the fighters coming, BEFORE, they get the chance to halve your shields and hurt you really bad.  This is going to be even more true as more and more players start using fighters as heavy drones and having them ram capital ships. Especially now that the newer Star Wars movies kind of pushed the idea of droid fighters.... you are going to see more fighters used in kamikaze attacks.

I think that in some ways, this is why we are seeing the hull factors of the ships constantly increasing. Players are constantly looking at ways to have ships survive longer, and making them massive not only gives them a longer survival rating, and the ability to load more defenses.... but also minimizes hits by changing the ratios of hull points to other item hits. 

Case in point. I designed a hull 1 ship with engines 8, and almost nowhere on the damage track did I see less than 3E... and yet when I did the Hull 8 ship with engines 8... there was no location greater than E.

These are the damage tracks from the construction assisstant with only the hull and engines entered in... although hyperdrive is defaulted

Hull 1  H3E  3EQ  H2EQ  3E  H2E  3E
Hull 8  H      E      H       E    H      Q

The reason I bring this up is that if a wing of fighters got in on these two ships, they would halve the shields, and fire first... and assuming that all damage die rolled a 2, 4, or 6... you can see where the smaller ships are rapidly crippled by them. Having an active way to at least shoot back, or maybe deter a few of these hits would go a long way towards increasing the survival of your ships.

Dan, if you feel that I am giving the AFB too much for the game, then I have no problem as it stands... but if it isn't too much to give them a die roll and a chance to actively take out some fighters during the fighter phase, it would give  fighters a more tactical edge, and the need for your players to consider not only how to use them, but what defenses you should include on your ships

John

There's another reason: effectively armor plating that doesn't need a die roll to work.   :wink:  (gee, and this would save time as well as there's less die rolls  )

Nothing says you have to fill up the entire space.  Design your ship with AP, then remove it and add another 33% to the hull size.  Slightly cheaper than Armor Plating, guaranteed to be effective, and if you have one or more Spinal Mounts: even better.  Now, hull that saved before can save again, so you may want to add 40%, in which case this method is a tad costlier, but you are guaranteed that the psuedo-AP works (and if you're like me with sucky die rolls, you'll take the guarantee every time  ).  Example ship I made: 12 hull with AP, cost 408; removed the AP, hull 16 cost 399, hull 17 cost 410.  Includes a spinal mount, and hull 16 gives one more hex of range per range band for the SM over the hull 12 ship.

Beowulf talks about his hull 22+ ships.  They aren't filled to the brim with combat rated equipment.  He's got Science Labs, Medical Bays, lots of Troops (his nephew has the crew-killing weapons), etc.

Plus, any fighter doing a kamikaze attack gets 3 dice damage and hits on a 2+..... and if you have AFB, the fighter is destroyed if he rolls a 1.... which during a kamikaze attack, happens anyways.

I was emailing a friend while working on this, and we found that the following are some ways of dealing with fighters.... and if anyone else has ideas, please put them in too !!!

1: If you opponent rushes his fighters foward, you rush yours foward and hope he doesn't have more flights than you do. Unfortunately, this usually results in a lot of dead fghters, with the side having surviving fighters gaining the advantage.

2: Hold all of your fighters back right next to your ships, and as the enemy gets in, try to make it so that you can move your fighters into the same adjacent hexes as his... that way you can declare a dogfight and keep his fighters from firing on your ships at half shields. However, this only works as long as you declare no movement of your capital ships. If your ships are moving, then you have to move your fighters first, and then have your ships move into the adjacent hexes during their movement, and hope your opponent doesn't have a few wings of fighters that can swoop in after you moved your fighters, but before your ship moves.

3: Equip all ships with PDS, since fighters can't halve that form of protection.

4: Have AFB, but remember that it only works if your opponent rolls ones..... and if the enemy is performing kamikaze attacks, a 1 results in destruction of the fighter whether or not you have AFB... so, it's not too much help.

5: Equip your ship with either carronade, or shockwave, and hope you survive until you can fire it, while remembering that you have no control of what hexes a carronade fires into, it might totally miss.

6: Equip all ships with weapons that have long range and high rates of fire, and play as a bunch of mobile turrets.

Anyone else have ideas?

John

I like escort ships as well... but they don't get to fire until after the fighters have made their attack, and can be targeted before they even get to fire. Meaning that the capital ship has to run the gauntlet of fire from the fighters and hope it can fire back.

I just tried another quick one on one battle, and running the active AFB didn't actually unbalance it. When the 3 wings came in, my ship, which was a hull 12, I rolled 12 dice against the fighters... I managed to hit a total of 3 fighters, and a further 2 had poor pilots, flying into enemy fire via rolling ones. At the same moment, they also rolled 18 dice against the ship, hitting with 7 of them and having 6 of them penetrate the shielding... destroying the AFB as one of the hits..... and inflicting 5 hull damage.

It didn't really appear to overpower the game... and also makes a lot of sense against drones. Normally, AFB, when used against drones, destroy any drone that rolls a 1..... however, any drone that rolls a one misses anyways, and drones are destroyed whether they hit or not, once they attack.......

I'd really like to get some more people to try using AFB to roll against fighters and drones actively.... since one test, and even multiple tests by the same player cannot be considered a fair test of this. Looking at the cost of the AFB, we find that it uses 5 percent of your SU's and also multiplies your defensive by 1.2. Armor Plating only gives a 1.5 multiplyer to the defensive rating, and protects against ANY incoming damage. The AFB would only actively hit 17 percent of targets ( the ones always miss anyways) where armor blocks 33 percent of hull damage, no matter the source.

I don't see where this is too much on my end, but being that I am not a master at math, and may have missed a square route or two (  :wink:  )

I hope someone else is willing to try this out and post their results here, as I don't want my opinion to be the only one here

John

You know, we did have an "active" fighter defense in the Compendium... the Fighter Defense Network (FDN). Anyone think it might be worth ressurrecting?