Thank you. I will check it out. The reason why I avoided it to mention was that I thought VBAM is a campaign system with many systems, not just a single one. Starmada Invasion is just for a single system, not many.

There are some grand scale games out there which include the fleets, economy etc of whole star empires.
Not so SI. It is intended to be without economics. The players conduct fleet movement and planetary invasions, managing supply and so on. The playing area of this game is only a single system and not a greater part of the galaxy like VBAM or Sovereigns stars.

Oh yes, I meant this game. It was called Prefect not Leviathan, as I posted it in my initial post. My fault sorry. I played the smaller scenarios several times, and liked it alot, but it was too complex for me for playing it more often. So Starmada Invasion should be much simpler than Prefect according to the tradition of normal Starmada.

If you like the idea, do you think that there could be a market (maybe a small) for such a game? I mean it would have no competitors out there.  In other wargaming branches (WW2 etc.) the conflicts are depicted also in several levels, from man-to-man ala Squad leader, to battallion sized, regiment sized up to involving whole continents ala World in Flames. In SF this seems not be the case. Either the conflicts are ship-to-ship or galactic scale between whole star empires, but not the levels in-between.

I agree. Space combat would benefit from some other scales. I myself have always wanted to do something akin to the old "Nth Fleet" series from Victory Games, and as I've already said, Prefect is an old favorite of mine. Never got through a whole game, since it does take quite a while, but I always thought it was cool...

I think that a similar game will fill an huge void in SCI-FI ones. I am a great fan of VG Fleet series (and never find them too complex, once you had played a couple of games the rules flow smoothly    ) .

VBAM is a great game, but is so epic in scale and so encompassing that the military part can often be masked by political, economics and research.

We lack an "operational" scale games who allow us to lead fleet in complex operations while still feeling the single ships under our command.

I would envision it as a map based game (with miniature conversion) with a a 22x32 hexed  map with a star sytem in it (maybe back printed with a deep space version in the back). On the map will be counter for fleet, divisions, bases, orbital station, fighter wings, planetary contigents and the rare single ships. On appropriate off map displays the counter representing the single ships  and ground units will be organized.

The basic combat sytem could be Starmada with adapation to fight in range bands instead than in hexes (but with the option to switch to a conventional Starmada game for people who want to do it) or a more simplified system more in line with the one presented in the fleet series (with undamaged, damaged and destroyed units) but with still rules for conversion.

I think that crew training and notable  commanders had to figure in it.

I think that, in the spirit of maintianing the system more open, an utility to desing counters will have to be provided as supporting tool.

A campaing sytems can be created to allow linked battles (if you occupy system A you then moves to system B).

mhmm,

I can try to tackle the problem using my loong boardgame experience and my knowledge of naval warfare... but while I am good at painting miniatures I am awful in doing graphic thinghies so I would need a graphic artist to have some decent playtest materials done and, of course, some playtesters 

Arrigo

mhmm... let turn on some sci-fi stimulating music and write some ideas...

Mike, both rulesets you have pointed out are full of nice ideas (from your own one can even create a nice strategic game about WW3 in the seas  8)  ). So let us rip off what we like...

I like the idea of assigning functions to task forces/division. I will even take it to the extreme and making their mission fixed upon creation (for example you create a missile ocmbat task force and the ships assigned will be linked to that mission until the formation is disbanded). Each mission will have strenght and weaknesses. For example missile combat ships will be able to use only their missile weapons in the attack, but will get a defensive bonus (representing the fact that they are trying to keep long range and not closing in).

if we go for a a system based hex map i would have the follwing range:
short range weapons: 1 hex (adiacent)
medium range weapons: 2-3
Long range weapons:  4-6

Using a 45x26 hex map will give plenty of maneuver space.

Counters will represent single capital ships, 4-6 of smaller ones and fighter/bomber squadrons or wing (depending on the fleet organization, I envision each counter being 24-30 planes).

The combat system must be simple yet comprensive. I like the fleet series one, it's numerical openess isgreat to represent the wide array of weapons system of starmada and thus it can still allow a tabletop conversion for a plain starmada game. For those who have missed this serie the combat revolves around the defender totalling his defensive value (according to the situation) and then rolling a d10 to obtain a modifier for the attacker roll (another d10 cross referenced with the sum of the attacker involved factors). the final results was a number compared with the damage value of the target. a competitive D10 roll (modified by tactical factors) who was then compared to the defense value of the target. is the result was less than half of the damage value the target was unaffected, if more than half but less than the number it was damaged and if it was more than the number the target was sunk. It looks complicted but it isn't and it allow for a paperless game with the right amount of detail.
In alternative one can use Starmada combat (modified for the new range system), but it will be slower and will detract from  the flow of the operational game (especially if large fleets, dozens of ships, are involved in a sinlge battle.

The hearth of the system will be the command system. I think that a this level the hearth of warfare is command. Each player will have command points who will be used to form forces (with expenses linked to the misison), purchase activation chits and to improve (temporarily) intelligence level (intelligence level is used for detecting enemy forces). Command points are determined by scenario and modified by some tactical situation and the presence of admirals/captains)

The activation chits are the heart of the game. there are six types:
Coordinated Action (most expensive, allow the activation of both naval and air units)
Naval Action (only naval forces can be move and can engae)
Fighter Action (the active layer can launch airstrikes)
Ground action (planetary bombardment and invasion, ground combat)
Limited Action (engaged naval formation can disegnage and logistic functions can be performed).

Sequence of action will be randomly detemirned by drawing chits from a cup (I think that a limit of 2-3 consecutive chit per player will be necessary).

Detection is another importan issue. all forces start the game undetected. Detection is auomatic in engagement range. Otherwise the players roll on the detection table at start of each turn (cloaked forces still need to be rolled on detection table even if in engagement range). The detection table represent recon fighter and small ships, drones and long range sensors. The fact that detection level can be increased by command point represent the allocation of more assets and planning to resources.

Comments?

Nothing substantive to add at the moment, but I thought I'd mention that I've always wanted to do a space-based version of Avalanche Press' "Great War at Sea" series... that seems to fit with the scale being suggested.

I agree. Bookeeping should not be more than in starmada. The only bookeeping should be task force mission assignment and maybe keeping track of supply points (but that is another story)

Thats why I think that planetary combat should be like fighter combat in starmada. Player A moves and fights then Player B.

A typical basic turn sequence could be

1. Both player assign simultaneously missions for their taskforces and write up the corresponding points on the playing area.

2. simulataneously movement to the designated area

3. mission resolving in alternate fashion, depending on the individual initiative value of a task force (how to calculate this is another story )
  -sensors phase (scanning other task forces to reveal them)
  -revealed task forces can do space battles: each player rows up his ship in lines and fires simulataneously (like A house divided or GDWs Imperium)
  -space/ground interface operations (moving spacecrafts or jump troopers to a planet while receiving planetary defense fire)
-other missions

4. players conduct ground movement and combat in alternate fashion, depending on the individual initiative value of the ground combat task force. This means  task force with highest initiative moves and combat first on the planet according to its movement points, then second highest etc. The planetary combat is similar to the space combat. This means lining up troops like "A house divided" etc..you get the picture. Different for long range missiles and artillery of course.

5. Logistic phase
-Task forces return to base to repair ships, reload ammo, burgers for the troops and "this strange green liquid for the drives" if necessary.
-command points (as arrigo suggested) are reassigned between the task forces - receiving a command point could represent the possibility to conduct advanced missions for the next turn not only the basic drill. (what these missions are, is another story ) They show that the headquarter is giving special attention to the task force for the next turn. Each headquarter could have a certain command value to distribute each turn depending on the quality of its 3C equipment and talent of its admiral.

Just remember...the more complexity and maps you're tracking over...the less attractive this becomes to a lot of 'casual' type players.

I would almost take a page out of Traveller and use sector designations then systems.  Conflicts take place in planetary spheres of influence or between orbits...which would determine how the game board is set up based on scale.  This gives you the strategic level of play you're after and keeps it simple enough to play through a tactical level without needing a secretarial pool to keep track of stuff on the table.   This may be what you're saying...but no offense intended...it isn't what it is sounding like.

Thus an ideal player turn will be:

- Joint command and reorganization phase.
    Players accrue their command points and expend them to organize new task force forces,  increase intelligence level and buy activation chits. In addition they can transfer fighter units between ships in the same force, recombine depleted units, transer Admirals/Captains and reorganize ground troops.

- Intelligence Gathering phase
    The detection status of units is checked and new detection rolls are made to detect undetected forces.

- Action Phase
   The player with the best intelligence level select one of his chit and play it. then all chits are placed on the cup and drawn randomly. Activities are:

Coordinated Action The active player moves and fights with both naval and  air units.
Naval Action  The active player can perform operation only with his bnaval forces
Fighter Action the active layer can launch airstrikes
Ground action  planetary bombardment and invasion, ground combat. It is the only chit that allow ground combat.
Limited Action only movement allowed is withdrawal of engaged formations, but the player can perform logistic action with his forces.

- Clean Up phase
   Usual amrker removal phase and advance the GT marker...

Logistic:
Logistic is performed on the move. Every time he use limited ammo weapons (usually missiles) the player mark a box on his roster.  Each ship/station has alimited number of ammo boxes, when these are all cheked up the ship is out of expendable ammo and must be resupplied. Resuplly is performed at spaceports, station and resupply ships. Carriers uses ammo also when launching strikes.

Umm... yes.

Please.