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mj12games.com/forum → Starmada → Mecha in Starmada
What about mecha as a fighter option? Lets say having the abilities of a +(?) stat to evade an enemies fire, and being able to attack ships in the same hex/space? Would you not like to have a flight of mecha be able to fly into and attack from inside a asteroid field? Or attack an opponents ship at same hex range (something thats not in the rules yet, I think).
Any neigh sayers, or other ideas for them + or - ? 8)
I don't see myself giving them any ads or disads over regular fighters. In fact, I just use fighters to simulate them when converting Gundam ships to Starmada.
This is how mecha are treated in the Wardogs rules as relating to Starmada;
Mecha vs. Starships:
Mecha squads attack starships per the Starmada Fighter rules with the following exceptions;
Mecha must be in the same hex or the immediate adjacent hex to the target starship in order to attack.
Mecha may roll one (1) to hit dice for every two (2) mecha in the squad. Any result of 5+ on the to hit dice indicates a successful hit upon the target starship.
For each successful hit, roll one (1) d6 for PEN as if the mecha were fighters.
For each successful PEN result, roll one (1) d6 for damage as if the mecha were fighters.
Mecha vs. Fighters:
Treat the mecha squad as if it were a squadron of fighters when attacking enemy fighters. Combat works as per the Starmada rules with the following exception;
Mecha only destroy enemy fighters in the target squadron on a die result of 6.
If the mecha squad does not have flight capability yet still deployed in a hull ward deployment, then treat the squad as an additional anti-fighter/ anti-missile battery. When deployed in this fashion, an equipment hit may destroy the mecha squad as it would an actual anti-fighter battery.
Well, I believe he's referring to more Gundam-like mecha, in which case I would say that Starmada isn't really the system for that.
Well, I believe he's referring to more Gundam-like mecha, in which case I would say that Starmada isn't really the system for that.
Well, this is a generic space rule set after all! There are rules for anima spinal guns, why not Mecha? Maybe if I get time here soon i`ll put some stats together and post them to see what y`all think.
Im a Lightning Strike fan myself, thats why I posted this idea 
Well, this is a generic space rule set after all! There are rules for anima spinal guns, why not Mecha? Maybe if I get time here soon i`ll put some stats together and post them to see what y`all think.
Im a Lightning Strike fan myself, thats why I posted this idea
Well, here's my concern, put bluntly and simply. In Gundam, and a few other series, the focus is so much on the Mecha that starships are generally reduced to explosive scenery. I'm not really shooting the idea down, but I do have concerns.
I'm also not quite sure how one would balance having something that could attack a ship in the same hex. That would make the vessel effectively unable to retaliate against its aggressors without special equipment. Carronades wouldn't even be able to deal damage to them, because of the mechanics of the weapon.
But we`er not playing Gundam, and I`m certainly not trying to focus on mecha alone. All I`m trying to do is add something new that I think might be fun and interesting, like a new figher type.
And about your other notion about the vulnerablitiy of a ship being attacked by a flight of exos/mecha in the same hex. The exos/mecha would be vulnerable to its enemies fighter flight. I mean thats originaly what fighters (planes/aerotech) were used for, for the protection of the task force against other fighters that might go after vulnerable ships and to press the attack against the enemy the same way.
Also a tactical advantage, technological advantage is what wins wars or this case games. And once a TV is allocated to a exos/mecha flight balance of the game still goes by the numbers.
Dont get me wrong I wouldn`t think of making them more powerful than all other fighters, just making them fulfill a specalized roll with there positives and negatives.
Starmada is a great system to play with, lets not limit the playable fluff!
I really think that, while Starmada is generic and should handle anything you can throw at it, the issue is really scale.
Basically, at a capital-ship scale, mecha aren't going to act much differently than fighters -- perhaps with a special ability or two.
BUT, if you wanted to scale down the game so that it represents fighter-sized ships, with "fighters" as missiles/drones, then you could build mecha from the ground up.
One of the options I find useful for representing mecha are the marines rules -- I also use this to represent assault shuttles.
TRANSFORMATION / BOARDER (x1.33): when this fighter flight scores a successful hit against an enemy vessel, it may choose to forego standard damage and board or transform. If it chooses to do so, each ship in the flight counts as one squad of Marines for boarding purposes. Only ships which score a successful hit may transform -- hence, the whole flight will rarely be able to do so a once.
-Adso
One of the options I find useful for representing mecha are the marines rules -- I also use this to represent assault shuttles.
TRANSFORMATION / BOARDER (x1.33): when this fighter flight scores a successful hit against an enemy vessel, it may choose to forego standard damage and board or transform. If it chooses to do so, each ship in the flight counts as one squad of Marines for boarding purposes. Only ships which score a successful hit may transform -- hence, the whole flight will rarely be able to do so a once.
-Adso
I think I'd require a successful shield penetration (probably with the 1/2 shields fighter bonus) in addition to the hit, in keeping with boarding pod mechanics. Also, do you allow retransformation from a BP back into a fighter, and if so, what are the mechanics?
Rich
TRANSFORMATION / BOARDER (x1.33): when this fighter flight scores a successful hit against an enemy vessel, it may choose to forego standard damage and board or transform. If it chooses to do so, each ship in the flight counts as one squad of Marines for boarding purposes. Only ships which score a successful hit may transform -- hence, the whole flight will rarely be able to do so a once.
Not a bad idea, but I would require the mecha to declare this option BEFORE the to-hit roll, not after.
OK Know I think we`re getting somewhere! 
What about Mecha having to roll for penetration, if succeded they are abile to roll damage to a specific location, a weapon battery or special equip, engine or hull
Good points, all!
Here's a revision -- does this reflect how you'd like to see them repped?
TRANSFORMATION / BOARDER (x1.33): At the beginning of the fighter phase, this flight may declare that it is transforming/boarding.
During the following round, each ship which successfully hits and penetrates the enemy vessel do not roll on the damage table as normal. Instead, the fighter is translated into a single Marine squad on the enemy ship. This squad has boarded the enemy ship and may fight in a boarding action THAT ROUND and all following rounds.
Fighters in the flight which fail to damage remain in play as normal, and may attempt to transform/board again next turn.
At the beginning of any subsequent fighter phase after boarding, a marine squad may declare it is disengaging/rembarking. Each surviving marine squad becomes one fighter in a flight, which may act in that fighter phase.
The end -- I hope this covers it. Oh, and in VBAM, this has fun potential, especially if you're using the 'detailed ground combat' rules.
-Adso
<sound of cackling as he ponders Heavy Bomber Transformable boarding mechs...>
Good points, all!
Here's a revision -- does this reflect how you'd like to see them repped?
TRANSFORMATION / BOARDER (x1.33): At the beginning of the fighter phase, this flight may declare that it is transforming/boarding.
During the following round, each ship which successfully hits and penetrates the enemy vessel do not roll on the damage table as normal. Instead, the fighter is translated into a single Marine squad on the enemy ship. This squad has boarded the enemy ship and may fight in a boarding action THAT ROUND and all following rounds.
Fighters in the flight which fail to damage remain in play as normal, and may attempt to transform/board again next turn.
At the beginning of any subsequent fighter phase after boarding, a marine squad may declare it is disengaging/rembarking. Each surviving marine squad becomes one fighter in a flight, which may act in that fighter phase.
The end -- I hope this covers it. Oh, and in VBAM, this has fun potential, especially if you're using the 'detailed ground combat' rules.
-Adso
<sound of cackling as he ponders Heavy Bomber Transformable boarding mechs...>
Sounds about right to me, although the point cost multiplier might need some testing to make sure it's accurate.
Rich
Here's a revision -- does this reflect how you'd like to see them repped?
Best option I've seen so far for mecha. And the point cost should be about right, too.
But I agree -- playtesting is needed.
Oh, wait, one more thing. Should transforming mecha be able to board friendly ships (to help out in a boarding action, presumably) automatically, without needing to roll to-hit or penetration? If yes, you probably need an upper cap on how many can fit...maybe equal to the ship's hanger capacity plus hull size? That assumes that ships designed to carry mecha are equipped with mecha-scale corridors and the like.
Hostile mecha probably shouldn't have (or need) a maximum boarding cap...they don't care about punching holes in vital equipment and breaching bulkheads, after all.
Rich
I really think that, while Starmada is generic and should handle anything you can throw at it, the issue is really scale.
Basically, at a capital-ship scale, mecha aren't going to act much differently than fighters -- perhaps with a special ability or two.
This is what I had in mind in the first place, basicly a ship killer flight. I kinda thought it more approprate to represent this with mecha considering I invision a unit coming into point blank and picking its shot. because it can vector its thrust more easily than a ship. where as a fighter ship would be constantly moving per sa, and hoping for a lucky shot.
TRANSFORMATION / BOARDER (x1.33): when this fighter flight scores a successful hit against an enemy vessel, it may choose to forego standard damage and board or transform. If it chooses to do so, each ship in the flight counts as one squad of Marines for boarding purposes. Only ships which score a successful hit may transform -- hence, the whole flight will rarely be able to do so a once.
Um I kind of feel out of the loop on this issue, where does transformation/ boarder come from? Is this from Wardogs or is that from Starmada or something else?
And are talking about the same thing ? :shock:
/
This is what I had in mind in the first place, basicly a ship killer flight. I kinda thought it more approprate to represent this with mecha considering I invision a unit coming into point blank and picking its shot. because it can vector its thrust more easily than a ship. where as a fighter ship would be constantly moving per sa, and hoping for a lucky shot.
I still don't see how mecha could have an advantage over fighters in this regard. You seem to be under the impression that fighter craft would operate under "Wing Commander Physics", when a fighter built for the practically unrestricted Newtonian motion of space would be able to pull off all kinds of crazy maneuvers not possible in an atmospheric environment, namely shooting in one direction while traveling in another (as seen on Babylon 5).
It can be included, but I expect to have to pay through the nose for it. Standard fighters, as a weapon, already have one of the meanest SU to CR ratios in the game, and special abilities make it even moreso. The selective targeting ability alone would make me want to make the cost of mecha at least double that of standard fighters, all other things being equal.
I still don't see how mecha could have an advantage over fighters in this regard. You seem to be under the impression that fighter craft would operate under "Wing Commander Physics", when a fighter built for the practically unrestricted Newtonian motion of space would be able to pull off all kinds of crazy maneuvers not possible in an atmospheric environment, namely shooting in one direction while traveling in another (as seen on Babylon 5).
It can be included, but I expect to have to pay through the nose for it. Standard fighters, as a weapon, already have one of the meanest SU to CR ratios in the game, and special abilities make it even moreso. The selective targeting ability alone would make me want to make the cost of mecha at least double that of standard fighters, all other things being equal.
Well It doesnt have to be included in every universe conversion. If you dont want to use it then dont use it. I want it for the universe I play in
Jovian Chronicals. And dont forget were not using unrestricted Newtonian
motion, its not apart of the game mechanics, its statisticly simulated in
2-D play.
And Im speaking purly about fantasy not reality.
Well It doesnt have to be included in every universe conversion. If you dont want to use it then dont use it. I want it for the universe I play in
Jovian Chronicals. And dont forget were not using unrestricted Newtonian
motion, its not apart of the game mechanics, its statisticly simulated in
2-D play.And Im speaking purly about fantasy not reality.
Well, Babylon 5 and Terminus can be pretty fantastical. They just select different areas in which to be so. 
Anyway, it does come down to cost, really. The multiplier for selective targeting would have to be staggering. However, having had experience with JC and Mekton Zeta (On which JC's mechanics are at least partially based), I would make mecha have a lower base speed than regular fighters.
Anyway, it does come down to cost, really. The multiplier for selective targeting would have to be staggering. However, having had experience with JC and Mekton Zeta (On which JC's mechanics are at least partially based), I would make mecha have a lower base speed than regular fighters.
Selective targeting = bad.
It's been proposed many times over the years, and I've never been able to justify it, as it would be prohibitively unbalancing...
Selective targeting = bad.
It's been proposed many times over the years, and I've never been able to justify it, as it would be prohibitively unbalancing...
I know that, from my experience with CBT. I don't think there's really any multiplier high enough, but some people are going to want to include it in their game all the same.
Um I kind of feel out of the loop on this issue, where does transformation/ boarder come from? Is this from Wardogs or is that from Starmada or something else?
And are talking about the same thing ? :shock:
ROBOTECH!
que theme song.....
damn, the HD crash zapped it, gotta go find it on the net again....;/
Transforming boarder is something brought up here. Nothing in Wardogs covers transformations (yet)...
(please bear in mind I'm at work and don't have my books for reference at the moment for the following;))
I think if you're looking at mecha advantages, rather than selective targeting allow them to attack while in the same hex as the starship, assuming they've landed on the hull. Damage is the same, but they can then ignore shields once landed, so no PEN roll needed. I don't believe fighters can attack while in the same hex, so this could be a pretty good beni.
Transforming boarder is something brought up I think if you're looking at mecha advantages, rather than selective targeting allow them to attack while in the same hex as the starship, assuming they've landed on the hull. Damage is the same, but they can then ignore shields once landed, so no PEN roll needed. I don't believe fighters can attack while in the same hex, so this could be a pretty good beni.
Nothing can attack anything in the same hex, as far as I know. I'd actually value this ability higher than selective targeting, as it would make the mecha invulnerable to any counterfire from the ship in question, even from close-range defense weapons like the shockwave and carronade.
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