Topic: Hexless Rules

Hi to all!! Here are the rule we use for our games, there is some litte change from the "official" rules, please let us know what you think about:

------------------------------------------------------------

The General Rule: if you like you can skip all of this and use only this: 1 hex = 1 inch. This is the very core of the hexless rules, all other thing are useful but not necessary. If you use small figure (10-6 mm) you can consider use the 1 hex = 1 cm convention, as long as all players agrees there is no problem.

Basing and Flanks : since we use the miniature from GW's Lord of the Ring range, we use 50mm square bases as element bases, with 3-4 figure if infantry, 2 if cavalry, 1 if others. If you use the warmaster or DBA bases there is a little reduction of front, so it doesn't really matter as long as all player use the same bases.

Zone of Control: elements have a zoc wide as they're bases, and deep 2”. This is an exception to the General Rule, but we find that 1” zoc is too easy to avoid.

Unit Cohesion and Formation

Regular Formation
A unit is in Regular Formation if all of the following apply:
All Elements in the unit are facing the same direction.
Two flank corners of each element in each rank touch two flank corners of at least one other element in that rank
There is a front rank of at least two Elements, aligned perpendicularly to the unit's facing.
All ranks (except the last) contain the same number of Elements.
The two front corners of all Elements in the second and subsequent ranks touch the two rear corners of one Element in the preceding rank.
There are no gaps in any rank except the last.

In other words, the unit makes a “block” of elements with no gaps in the ranks except for the last rank.

Column Formation
Each Rank has one element, either
One left corner of all Elements in the second and subsequent ranks touches the left half of the rear flank of the Element in front of it.
or
One right corner of all Elements in the second and subsequent ranks touches the right half of the rear flank of the Element in front of it.

A unit consisting of one Element is always considered to be in Regular Formation.

Movement
All movement are unit-based. An unit can go forward for his movement allowance without other rules.
Wheel
Wheeling is a dire affair, we use this convention:
An unit wheels on the center of the unit. Each 45° of rotation has a fixed cost in movement allowance, depending on the unit longest side (not necessary the front). We state that  the cost is equal to half the number of bases rounded up. For example, a 4x3 unit will pay 4/2=2 inch to make a 1° to 45° wheel. A long unit, for example 3x8 or a column count the longest side, so in this casa 8 bases (so wheeling costs 4 inch).
In this manner we speed up a little since we need not to make curves misuration.

Difficult Terrain
We state that a player must pay the penalty for the difficult terrain for the whole unit.

Combat
We make some little modification:

1: When elements came into contact they must align themselves, the contacting unit must move in order to contact the more enemy possible.
2: You cannot contact a side of enemy base if you were not in the same side at the start of your activation. In other word, ff you are in the front arc of a unit you cannot charge the flank, even if you have enough movement to do so.

When not stated different us the General Rule. And Common Sense.
------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Hexless Rules

I like the Zone of control rules and wheeling very much. 

ZOC is one thing that didn't translate very well to hexless, but the simple yet obvious answer is to double the from ZOC. Wish I'd have thought of that.

The wheel rule is very nicely stated.

I have a question about the contact rule.  When you say front arc, do you mean inside the ZOC of a unit? if so I think that's fine, but if you mean just in front of a unit but not in ZOC, then I don't think it should be as restrictive.

In the "hexed" rules, any element can pass by a unit and go around if they have the movement. I don't necessarily want to give up that tactic in hexless.

Thoughts?

Re: Hexless Rules

jimbeau wrote:

I like the Zone of control rules and wheeling very much. 

ZOC is one thing that didn't translate very well to hexless, but the simple yet obvious answer is to double the from ZOC. Wish I'd have thought of that.

The wheel rule is very nicely stated.

Still no pillbug wheeling... I won't give that up.

No, sir.

jimbeau wrote:

I have a question about the contact rule.  When you say front arc, do you mean inside the ZOC of a unit? if so I think that's fine, but if you mean just in front of a unit but not in ZOC, then I don't think it should be as restrictive.

I'd agree if meant as ZOC - I think that is just about perfect.

jimbeau wrote:

In the "hexed" rules, any element can pass by a unit and go around if they have the movement. I don't necessarily want to give up that tactic in hexless.

Not in ZOC, you mean, right?

Re: Hexless Rules

right, NOT in ZOC.

and pillbugs will never be able to wheel in FtM it goes against all that is well and good in this world or any other.

Re: Hexless Rules

I'm happy to be useful  big_smile

I don't understand "pillbugs" how fit in this, but I'm sure there is a logical explanation big_smile

For contact, I mean even not in ZOC. I know that is restrictive, but the aim is that you should struggle to get the flank or the rear, not simply benefit from an high movement.

Of course if you are already engaged when you reform you can place unengaged elements in flank rear/position if you can.

Re: Hexless Rules

Pillbugs are the footnote on page 11

So, a unit that begins 16" away from another unit, but within the front arc may not wheel and move and wheel and flank?

hmm. I think that might be too restrictive.

Re: Hexless Rules

All the follow is strictly IMHO  :wink:

The fact for me is that moving versus a flank or rear thanks to high movement alone isn't a tactics, is cheesy. After all with the command points system isn't so hard take a flank, only if you start from the front you should first move to a flank and then charge.

I mean, take the flank or the rear should be a rewarding action, not only in games, but something planned and accomplished by manouvering all your units. Taking the flank of your enemies should be something that made you proud of it, not only a matter of movement points.

Well, beside this is an uncommn evenience that you have so much movement point to do so, if you feel this as an unnecessary restriction I'll try without it and let you know.

There are other issue?

Re: Hexless Rules

Let me try to clear something up. I believe the reason Zerloon doesn't like a unit starting in the front arc of another unit, then being able to move far enough to flank that unit, then follow that move up with a flanking charge, is because alomost every rule set that I'm aware of does not allow for one unit to flank charge another unit if the charging unit starts in the front arc of the target unit.
And I like that same restriction.
However, all of that being said...
In games involving multiple orders (or actions) being given to units, based on command point expenditure, I think the above tactic is entirely reasonable and within the spirit of the game.
In order for one unit to be able to do that it has to be given enough orders to accomplish that. And the more orders a unit is being given the more command points that are being spent, at the expense of not moving other units.
So I don't think the above effect is a bad thing at all.
Kevin

Re: Hexless Rules

One moment, I think I misunderstand something.

Let make an example:

Unit A :  8)
Unit B :  :twisted:

Starting position:

8)  8)  8)  8)




:twisted:  :twisted:  :twisted:  :twisted:

Final Position:

  8)  8)  8)  8)  :twisted:  :twisted:  :twisted:  :twisted:


Now, how we come at this?

1) Unit B take a Charge order, move to the left, wheel and then contact to the flank.

2) Unit B take a move order, move to the left. Unit B take charge order and charge the flank.

If we speaking about case 1 I think is too easy get flank bonus, is we speaking about case 2 so I absolutely have no objection, is exactly the way I like.

I hope it's clear.

Re: Hexless Rules

Zerloon wrote:

Let make an example:
Unit A :  8)
Unit B :  :twisted:
Starting position:
8)  8)  8)  8)

:twisted:  :twisted:  :twisted:  :twisted:

Final Position:
  8)  8)  8)  8)  :twisted:  :twisted:  :twisted:  :twisted:

Now, how we come at this?

1) Unit B take a Charge order, move to the left, wheel and then contact to the flank.
2) Unit B take a move order, move to the left. Unit B take charge order and charge the flank.
If we speaking about case 1 I think is too easy get flank bonus, is we speaking about case 2 so I absolutely have no objection, is exactly the way I like.
I hope it's clear.

Yes.
And when I posted earlier I was thinking specifically of condition 2. I also agree that condition 1 is probably not desireable.
Kevin

Re: Hexless Rules

Zerloon wrote:

I don't understand "pillbugs" how fit in this, but I'm sure there is a logical explanation big_smile

Umm... no.

There's no logical explanation for pillbugs.

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: Hexless Rules

cricket wrote:
Zerloon wrote:

I don't understand "pillbugs" how fit in this, but I'm sure there is a logical explanation big_smile

Umm... no.

There's no logical explanation for pillbugs.

Having been at the birth of the pillbug references in the Kastian Kitchen that fateful evening... I'd say it is perfectly logical given the right amount of frothy beverage goodness.  8)

Re: Hexless Rules

Kevin, you did a great job of explaining exactly what I was going to say with this:

underling wrote:

In games involving multiple orders (or actions) being given to units, based on command point expenditure, I think the above tactic is entirely reasonable and within the spirit of the game.
In order for one unit to be able to do that it has to be given enough orders to accomplish that. And the more orders a unit is being given the more command points that are being spent, at the expense of not moving other units.
So I don't think the above effect is a bad thing at all.
Kevin

I think this quote does fully support option 1 or 2...

But now I think I see how the front arc restriction makes sense logically, even if I don't quite agree with it and my more loose, play to bash and have fun approach. But I would never pretend to restrict the other folks' fun by saying that they couldn't do it their way. Now that I better understand the intent of the original wording, it makes sense, and probably works better for the pure hexless crowd. smile

Re: Hexless Rules

Taltos wrote:

Kevin, you did a great job of explaining exactly what I was going to say with this:

underling wrote:

In games involving multiple orders (or actions) being given to units, based on command point expenditure, I think the above tactic is entirely reasonable and within the spirit of the game.
In order for one unit to be able to do that it has to be given enough orders to accomplish that. And the more orders a unit is being given the more command points that are being spent, at the expense of not moving other units.
So I don't think the above effect is a bad thing at all.
Kevin

I think this quote does fully support option 1 or 2...

But now I think I see how the front arc restriction makes sense logically, even if I don't quite agree with it and my more loose, play to bash and have fun approach. But I would never pretend to restrict the other folks' fun by saying that they couldn't do it their way. Now that I better understand the intent of the original wording, it makes sense, and probably works better for the pure hexless crowd. smile

I would still suggest that the Front arc be limited to the distance of a single movement order.  I.e. if a unit has 4" movement, then that rule should only apply if there is an enemy within 4", but then you've also removed the uniqueness of impetuous units to some degree.

I agree with Noel, though, I'm certainly not going to tell you you can't do it whatever way you want.  And I'm all for frothy goodness.