• Registered: 2005-03-28
  • Posts: 379

Topic: Aeronef to Iron Stars (proposed guidelines)

I finally ordered some nef minis.  And I wanted to adapt them to the Iron Stars rules because .....I wanted to.  I own both sets of rules.  I've watched a few Aeronef games and like the models.  I just feel the rules are too basic.  And a friend let me look at the stats for some of his Russians, and it was enough for me to buy some Austrians -- which should arrive any day now  big_smile

Anyone who wants to offer some feedback, please do so.  I picked two designs as examples of how it could work, because they're listed in the Captain's Handbook, and their pics are on the Brigade site.

The first is the Charlemagne class BC.  Stats are available in the Captain's Handbook, and a pic of the mini is online.

Step 1 (Hull to Hull)
I multiply the published Aeronef stats by .6   This puts most light cruisers and destroyers in the “Small Category,” Gunboats in the “Very Small,” published freighters at the TMW size of 12 hulls (“Medium”) and the Charlemagne BC at “Large." 

IE – Charlemagne is 28 x .6 = 17 Hull (Large)

Le Brouchet class Frigate is 13 X.6 = 8 (Small)

I trimmed down on hull sizes just to make the game a little faster and more lethal than would be provided by a 1-1 conversion.  Aeronef hits all come out of structural integrity, which ain't the case in Iron Stars.

Step 2 (Speed to Thrust)
Multiply the Aeronef value by x.4 and round to the nearest number.  Might seem harsh until you release IS has momentum, and the turning allowed by Aeronef is a little gracious, even with the advanced turning options of IS. For example, Charlemagne can Turn 2 hex facings (120 degrees, while in Iron Stars a Large class hull can turn up to 90 degrees).  That, plus the fact that the whole momentum rule in IS means you can effectively move double your listed Thrust rating, is why I did that.

Charlemagne has 5 Thrust. 

Le Brouchet has has 7 Thrust.

Step 3 (Armor)
Use the default value per size classication. 

Charlemagne has an Armor of 3

Le Brouchet has an Armor of 1

Step 4 (Guns)

This was kind of tricky, but I found a website by D. Manley that helped put things kinda/sorta in perspective.

He qualifies Nef guns in basic categories which I've used as a starting point for the conversion.

IS equivalent d4(x1) is worth .5 Nef gun die
IS equivalent d8(x2) or d6(x2) is worth 1 Nef gun die
IS equivalent d12(x3) is worth 2 Nef gun die

Breaking it down further, I decided D12s would be the primaries assigned to large warships, D8s to medium hulls, Frigates and Destroyers would get D6s and anything smaller just plain light guns.

I didn't TRY to do all this at random.  The range for weapons in Aeronef is 30 cm (or 12").  Which means that each die has a 1-in-6 chance of causing damage at a distance of 12".

So in my conversion, if the default gun for a BB is d12, and the default armor is 3, then that ship's main weapon has the same odds of causing damage at 12" (6+3+2 =11+ on a d12). 

Cruisers, medium in size, would have an armor value of 2 and d8 guns.  4+2+2= 8+ at 12".  A 12.5% chance, which ain't far off.

Small destroyers and frigates, with Armor of 1, would get D6s.  3+1+2 = 6+ at 12".  Right on.

Now, ya look at the pic of the Charlemagne, and it has two primary turrets with only one barrel apiece, and six secondaries (4 wing mounts and two broadside pieces).  That's 10 gun dice.  The two leftovers are used to purchase four light guns.

Charlemagne shapes up like this:

17 Hull, 5 Thrust, 3 Armor, 2d12(x3) primaries, 6d6(x2) secondaries, 4d4 (x1) light guns.

Le Brouchet comes up as:

8 Hull, 7 Thrust, 1 Armor, 2d6(x2) primaries -- forward only, no secondaries.

Step 5 (Extra Kit)
Bomb Dice in Nef are divided by 3 and rounded to the closest number to give you their equivalent number of bomb racks in IS.

Charlemagne has 2 bomb dice = 1 bomb rack.

Air Torpedoes have a maximum range of 30cm (12") and roll 5 dice, needing a 6+ to hit.  This, to me, makes them equal to Congreve Rockets in most respects.  Rockets need a 6+ to hit, and have a range of 12", and are bought in packets of five.

But then, Rockets in IS also have to roll against armor, which means they don't even have a 1-in-6 chance of damaging most targets.  So I would suggest Hale Rockets instead. 

The French have air torpedoes, and a maximum allotment is allowed in each hull according to size, but none of my friends play the French, and none can tell me if they're considered default kit.  The finalized conversion stats below have plenty of room left over for Hales Rockets if that's the case.

Flights of fighters, in my mind, translate just into single FACs.  A flight of Nef fighters would convert into 2 IS hull points, which FACs don't have.  But Iron Stars FACs enjoy that range rule, which makes them hard to hit.

The base fighter flight stat would be
1 Hull, 10 Thrust, 2 Light Guns or 4 MGs (player's pick)

Bombers would have
1 Hull, 9 Thrust, 1 Bomb Rack

The French allow air torpedoes on their planes, with a 6" max range, which roll 4 dice to try and damage you.  I equate this to a D8(X4) torpedo.  At about 6", a D8 torp would need a 8+ to damage an armor 3 ship, 4+2+2 = 8. It also just varies stuff.

So a Torpedo Plane Flight
1 Hull, 9 Thrust, 1d8(x4) torpedo

Crew
Individual vessels in Aeronef have crew ratings used in boarding actions.  I'd suggest going on a 1-1 basis using packs of IS boarding parties.  The ranges for boarding actions aren't that far off between the two rule sets, and in Aeronef, crew casualties can in theory cause you to surrender, which would make it seem that whole aspect of combat is a lot more lethal than it is in IS. 

Le Brouchet and Charlemagne each get 2 packs of boarders.

Martian Lightning Guns
In Aeronef they have half the range, but a better chance of causing damage.

So I have them treated as Iron Stars Heat Rays -- reducing armor, but bump them down a die size.  So a large Martian hull would have D10 heat ray primaries instead of D12s.

Gas Firers
Straight Poison Gas shells per the IS rules. 

Anyway, the finalized stats for the two ships are as follows:
Charlemagne class BC -- 69 points
17 (L/2)
3 Armor
5 Thrust
2d12(x3) primaries
6d6(x2) secondaries
4d4(x1) secondaries
Boarding Parties x10
Bomb Rack x1

Le Brouchet class Torpedo Frigate -- 15 pts
8 (S/1)
1 Armor
7 Thrust
2d6(x2) primaries
Boarding Parties x10


Now, if you run out of room in the ship's hull, drop the damage values of your guns, starting with the primaries and moving back.  D12(x3) guns could become D12(x2) instead.

Please, tear this to shreds if you wanna.  But I've been puzzling over this for more than a week now and the local reaction has been pretty positive.

Matt</r>

  • Registered: 2022-11-15
  • Posts: 1,285

Re: Aeronef to Iron Stars (proposed guidelines)

Here was my take on the conversion before SF and the bombing rules came out. smile  Your gun conversions are definitely better Matt.

  • Registered: 2022-11-16
  • Posts: 516

Re: Aeronef to Iron Stars (proposed guidelines)

Looks good Matt.
I guess the only thing I'd suggest is look into using d10 guns for some of the large ships.
Right now it doesn't look like your conversion rules utilize them.
Maybe you could divide the large category into a "small" large (16-19 hull) and a "regular" large (20-24 hull).
All very large ships would then automatically get d12s as primaries.
Kevin

  • Registered: 2005-03-28
  • Posts: 379

Re: Aeronef to Iron Stars (proposed guidelines)

Thanks to both of ya for looking it over  smile

I'm thinking about D10s versus D12s.  Using a dice server, I did a bunch of testing to see how the conversion approach to gun layout held up to the original Aeronef gun die stats for Charlemagne.

Looking at the <15" band and <10" range bands  the original Aeronef approach caused twice the damage (just about exactly), but the conversion hulls are cut almost in half when it comes to size, so it held up ok.  That didn't take in any to-hit modifiers outside of range (like size or momentum).  I figure optional means optional.

I had a pair of additional ideas I wanted to run by folks as house rules.  Then I'm done.

Bombing
Taking the average of all 24 listed cities in the Iron Stars rules, a speed of 7” and momentum of 4” is what you get.  But as Aeronefs are not orbiting the Earth, trying to bomb a city that's rotating away from them, there is no call to move the bombing template.  Rather, just plunk the circle on the playing area, and assign it a momentum of “4.”  This gives a basic value that tells players just how hard it is for the bombing Nefs or planes to line up that facility in their sites.  Other than that, roll to-hit as normal.

Optional Altitude Rules
Manley on http://www.btinternet.com/~david.manley/wargames/Odds/adnef1.htm  offers some guidelines as to elevation in the Aeronef universe.  I'm trying to do something that's kinda/sorta the same. 

Ahem....

1.) There are three altitude levels (Low, Medium and High).
Assets can fire at targets at altitudes  higher or lower than their own, as long as the range beats the altitude difference by x5". So if a Nef fires at a target one band lower than its own, the target must be at least 5” away.  Same is true if the target is higher.

FACs and very small hulls can climb any number of altitude levels, but it reduces the distance they can move forward by 5” per step.

Small and medium hulls can climb two bands, with the same limitations.

Large hulls can only climb one band.

All hulls can dive any number of bands.  It slows their forward progress by 2” per band. 

2.) You can also apply altitude modifiers to bombing runs.  Simply increase the target's momentum value by 1 if attacked from low altitude, and decrease it by 1 if attacked from high altitude.

3.) Last, rack-equipped assets can now bomb Nefs.  The basic to-hit procedure remains the same as published in The Southern Front supplement. The attacking model must be in base-to-base contact, but marked as being at a higher altitude.  Compare momentum and respective headings:
·    Opposites  (through front or rear firing arc): -1 penalty
·    Approaching through starboard or port firing arc: nothing
·    Matching heading (front arc in target's front/rear arc): +1

Then make the to-hit roll.  The base target #s are 3+ for large hulls, 4+ for medium hulls and    5+ for small hulls.  Very small targets are off limits.

The bombs then roll against deck armor, which is one step lower than the ship's listed value.

For example, a flight of bombers (high) is placed in base-base-contact with Charlemagne (low).  The base to-hit target is 3+.  But the bombers, while matching momentum fairly well, are on an opposite heading.  So the final target is 4+.  Each hit then has to beat the Charlemagne's deck armor rating of 2.  Each hit rolls a single point of damage. 


Everything else (rule wise) from Iron Stars I'm leaving untouched.  Searchlights, starshells, turning rules, etc etc.....so really, once you get the ships converted, the only thing that affects the IS books is the optional stuff above.


Crap?  OK? 

I'm typing this up into a word file.  If folks want it, they can have it.

  • Registered: 2005-03-28
  • Posts: 379

Re: Aeronef to Iron Stars (proposed guidelines)

Ne'er mind  big_smile

I used the house rules anyway (they're good enough for our small group here) as I got my first batch of Nefs painted and tried them out using the converted stats (polished up the equations).  Folks had a blast yesterday at the local game shop watching the Brits take on a mixed fleet of Austro-Hungarian and German ships.  And the consensus was it felt right. Look for some battle reports later.

So yay for me!

  • Registered: 2022-11-15
  • Posts: 1,424

Re: Aeronef to Iron Stars (proposed guidelines)

Ignore this.

place marker....

I want to hear more if there is any.

  • Registered: 2006-09-28
  • Posts: 19

Re: Aeronef to Iron Stars (proposed guidelines)

I wa very interested to see this post. I play StarmadaX and have just got Aeronef. I love the idea/conceptof the game but also feel the Aeronef rules are a little too basic. Fine for large actions but not for smaller battles. I therefore have started to look at a conversion to the SX rules engine.

Shields replaced with armour.
In addition to engines which dictate max speed and acceleration, there are lifters which dictate the amount of lift the nef has which in turn dictates the number of altitude levels it can climb (looking at up to 10 levels). As lifters are damaged the climb rate is affected and eventually the nef will start to lose height (sink).

Gun elevation rules are similar to those already described with minimum ranges being x inches per level. Also max range is reduced by y inches per level if shooting at a higher target.

As part of the design process for a nef I am conisdering 5 basic hull configurations - v fast, fast, average, slow, v slow. This is to give the designer some tolerance in hull shape and aerodynamics. The wider the hull the slower it will be but the more forward or aft facing guns it can bear. Normal/average hulls would be battleship shape but with say only 50% of its guns able to fire forward, but 100% on a broadside. A V fast hull would be very stream line and so only be able to bear 25% in the forward arc, but would fly faster per engine unit.

Next thing to work on is turning capability and cost. Also a ship stand design that holds the model at different altitudes.

I suspect I may also need to extend the SX damage track to d10.

Very rough at the moment, but getting there.