• Registered: 2007-06-18
  • Posts: 128

Topic: Pricing 'Ignores PDS'

Trying to figure out the appropriate cost for a system that ignores PDS.  Does anyone have any insight into how the cost for Ignores Shields was derived?

Also, been considering an 'Anime' modifier for non-spinal mounts... either a 1.0 Modifier that makes the weapon act exactly like an anime spinal mount (AOE line, affected only by true range, fires every other turn, no fire 1st turn) or a 2.0 Modifier that doesnt do the 'every other turn' and 'no first turn' thing.

Basic theory is that the cost difference between ASMs and 'normal' Spinals is 0, that should apply to other things.

Other thoughts.. mounts that fire in the same phase as fighters... x2, given the fighter costing?

  • Registered: 2006-01-17
  • Posts: 740

Re: Pricing 'Ignores PDS'

Hello,
Your idea of adding "Ignores PDS" as a weapon ability sounds interesting, but it may add unwanted, and unneeded complications.  If we use the parallel found with "ignores shields", will there be an "Ionic PDS"<LOL> that cannot be ignored?  And then, how about a weapon ability that Ignores armor plating, or armored batteries, or even the experimental ablative armor?  If these abilities come out, will there be an "ionic"<LOL> variant of these that cannot be ignored.  The Complications could spiral and spiral.  This wonderful game could possibly become almost as complex as the 1990s Star Fleet Battles.  :shock:
:idea: Perhaps we should not go down this road... :!:

  • From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,578

Re: Pricing 'Ignores PDS'

Marcus Smythe wrote:

Trying to figure out the appropriate cost for a system that ignores PDS.  Does anyone have any insight into how the cost for Ignores Shields was derived?

Concerns about the wisdom of "ignores PDS" as a weapon trait notwithstanding, I would use x1.5 as the modifier. (x2.5 for "ignores shields" is the average for each shield rating from 0 to 5; the average of PDS/No PDS is (2+1)/2 = 1.5)

Also, been considering an 'Anime' modifier for non-spinal mounts... either a 1.0 Modifier that makes the weapon act exactly like an anime spinal mount (AOE line, affected only by true range, fires every other turn, no fire 1st turn) or a 2.0 Modifier that doesnt do the 'every other turn' and 'no first turn' thing.

Would need playtesting, but sounds about right.

Other thoughts.. mounts that fire in the same phase as fighters... x2, given the fighter costing?

As good a start as any.

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website

  • Registered: 2005-03-29
  • Posts: 859

Re: Pricing 'Ignores PDS'

I already thought of anime-style which essentially created a line of effect from the ship to a target hex. Thought of x4.0, though...

  • Registered: 2007-06-18
  • Posts: 128

Re: Pricing 'Ignores PDS'

1.)  I can agree that there may be questionable wisdom in an 'ignores PDS' style weapon.  However, at least in my own designs, I find PDS proliferating at the expense of shielding, due to the very fact that PDS faces no 'ignores' or 'halves' or 'resonant' incoming fire.

Also, its alot easier to hide your PDS behind other 'Q' hits.

2.)  I appreciate the quick response on everything.  Dan is in fact the man, in the world of game designers.  (Many another nameless game designer would not even deign to look at suggestions, especially those he considers the path to madness.  Yet others would heap piles of derision on those so foolish as to question their wisdom...)

  • Registered: 2022-11-16
  • Posts: 516

Re: Pricing 'Ignores PDS'

Marcus Smythe wrote:

2.)  I appreciate the quick response on everything.  Dan is in fact the man, in the world of game designers.  (Many another nameless game designer would not even deign to look at suggestions, especially those he considers the path to madness.  Yet others would heap piles of derision on those so foolish as to question their wisdom...)

Oh puh-leeze...
Derision is his middle name.
lol
Kevin

  • Registered: 2006-01-17
  • Posts: 740

Re: Pricing 'Ignores PDS'

:? Well, if there is gonna be testing for the weapon ability that Ignores PDS, will there be an "Ionic PDS", one that cannot be ignored.  This would parallel to ionic shields which cannot be "ignored"<LOL>.  If so, what would be the cost.  I enjoy PDS and don't mind it be difficult to get thru.  I just hammer and hammer, and hammer 'til the enemy ships are gone... big_smile   

:idea: The weapon ability "Rerolls Penetration" is a great counter to either shields &/or PDS.  I think its better than taking "Ignores Shields" because if the enemy ship has ionic shielding or just PDS, you wasted the extra CR cost.  :shock:   And if "Ignores PDS " becomes official, and you encounter a ship with level 5 shields, again, you have wasted the extra CR.  :shock:   What does everyone think about my conclusions?  If you go to the Bourbaki Basin forum and checkout the modified "Mississippi" DNs; the main weapons of these ships has only "Rerolls Penetration" as a weapon ability... smile

  • Registered: 2007-06-18
  • Posts: 128

Re: Pricing 'Ignores PDS'

The value of May Reroll Penetration, at 1.5, is pretty much dependent on the level of defense the target has.

Interestingly, it breaks even as low as Shields 3 and/or PDS.  Higher levels of sheilding make it more valuable, of course.

I think in our games around here, we may just avoid the entire PDS, anti-PDS, etc. 'thing' by removing the system.

As for pricing 'Ionic PDS'.. should be the exact same as Ionic when added to shields 3...

  • From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,578

Re: Pricing 'Ignores PDS'

BeowulfJB wrote:

And if "Ignores PDS " becomes official, and you encounter a ship with level 5 shields, again, you have wasted the extra CR.

Let's all remember -- "ignores PDS" is only official if you allow it to be.

Starmada -- made for tinkerin'. big_smile

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website