Topic: Pricing of 'Must Reroll Penetration' and some questions...

1.)  Must Reroll Penetration describes a weapon which is 'highly susceptible to shield interference', and notes that 'whenever one of the penetration dice gets through the targets shields' it must be rerolled.

2.)  Ignores Shields creates a situation where the shot 'automatically gets through the targets shields'

3.)  PDS notes that 'Shield (meaning, I assume, penetration) rolls automatically fail on an unmodified roll of 1, 3, or 5'.  Thus, the PDS both is, and is not, a shield.


Thoughts:
We accept that PDS applys to a weapon that 'Ignores Shields'.  Ergo, whatever PDS is, it is not shields, such that an Ignores Sheilds weapon does not ignore it.  (Is this correct?  It seemed clear to me at the time).

I initially thought that a weapon which 'Must Reroll Penetration' would have to reroll against PDS.  However, 'Must Reroll Penetration' states that shots which get through the targets shields must be rerolled.  Assuming that PDS is not shields for the purposes of Ignores Sheilds, this suggests that PDS is not shields for the purposes of Must Reroll Penetration, such that a weapon, which is 'must reroll penetration', would not have to reroll penetrations agaisnt a ship having only PDS, and would face only the screens on its second roll, if the target ships had both screens AND PDS.

On the other hand, my first interpretation is simpler.. which has its own virtues.

I guess it comes down to how we assigned the cost of 'Must Reroll Penetration'.  If it contemplated PDS, it must reroll against PDS.  If it did not contemplate PDS (as Ignores-Shields did not, I belive, contemplate PDS in its costing), I guess it shouldnt have to face PDS on the reroll.

Thoughts?

Re: Pricing of 'Must Reroll Penetration' and some questions...

Marcus Smythe wrote:

1.)  Must Reroll Penetration describes a weapon which is 'highly susceptible to shield interference', and notes that 'whenever one of the penetration dice gets through the targets shields' it must be rerolled.

<<snip>>

We accept that PDS applys to a weapon that 'Ignores Shields'.  Ergo, whatever PDS is, it is not shields, such that an Ignores Sheilds weapon does not ignore it.  (Is this correct?  It seemed clear to me at the time).

<<snip>>

Thoughts?

And herein lies the danger of trying to be all things to all people -- you end up with discussions about the technology of a particular system, rather than the game effects thereof.

The point of PDS was just to introduce a non-"shields" defense -- it actually was never intended to be used in concert with shields. In reality, it acts just like shields -- i.e., it blocks 50% of incoming fire, but as many have pointed out, it does so more efficiently and without the need to fear "Ignores Shields" weapon abilities.

Frankly, I would rank the introduction of PDS right below banked weapons on my list of things that should never have been tried. smile

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: Pricing of 'Must Reroll Penetration' and some questions...

Well, I never experienced "Banked Weapons"... so I cant say as to that.

I think I may just cut the gordian knot by not using PDS in my local games.  KISS, and all that.

Re: Pricing of 'Must Reroll Penetration' and some questions...

Hello everyone,

:arrow: I am playing a game of Starmada Compendium with friends down in St Augustine.  big_smile   
I noticed that Daniel wrote
"Frankly, I would rank the introduction of PDS right below banked weapons on my list of things that should never have been tried".
Hmm...  My fleet that I am using is similar to the one I use in Starmada X, except that these ships have simple ER Laser cannon = {3+; 1-6, 7-12, 13-24, in triple banks(!)} :oops:
Whoops! All of my 'Compendium ships have banked weapons, and PDS w/level 3 shields. :shock:   
[Embarrassed Admiral Beowulf hides in command chair<LOL>] :wink:
Some of my St Aug. friends there use banked weapons, some don't.  I am patiently trying to convert them to StarmadaX...
Will let everyone know how it goes  :!:

Re: Pricing of 'Must Reroll Penetration' and some questions...

Dude... I may have to disable smilies if we don't get more responsible with their application.... big_smile

BeowulfJB wrote:

Whoops! All of my 'Compendium ships have banked weapons, and PDS w/level 3 shields. :shock:   
[Embarrassed Admiral Beowulf hides in command chair<LOL>] :wink:

I'm not saying you can't have them -- they're in the rulebook, so they are "legal". But I personally think they are overpowered, which is why they didn't make the transition to X.

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: Pricing of 'Must Reroll Penetration' and some questions...

cricket wrote:

Frankly, I would rank the introduction of PDS right below banked weapons on my list of things that should never have been tried. smile

And I'd rank them both below spinal mounts.
:wink:
Kevin

Re: Pricing of 'Must Reroll Penetration' and some questions...

Bewulf... no need to apologize. 

Were wargamers.  We have, literally, years of experience, each of us, smelling out what works best in any given game, and honing in on it.

Unsuprisingly, we built our navies to work well, within the universe they exist in.

The question is.. how do we use knowledge of the game system to inform how we use the game system, and how does cricket use it to inform how he develops the game system?

Re: Pricing of 'Must Reroll Penetration' and some questions...

During today's Starmada Compendium game in St Augustine with my gaming friends there, We all agreed that its a good game, but the time has come to move to the Starmada X version. 

My friends all have the rules for Starmada Compendium.  They r gonna down load the revisions. And I lent them one of the copies of Starmada X that I have.

We are playing on Synday, July15th @ 2pm here in Jacksonville at Wardogs on Beach Blvd.  All are welcome

Re: Pricing of 'Must Reroll Penetration' and some questions...

During today's Starmada Compendium game in St Augustine with my gaming friends there, We all agreed that its a good game, but the time has come to move to the Starmada X version. 

My friends all have the rules for Starmada Compendium.  They r gonna down load the revisions. And I lent them one of the copies of Starmada X that I have.

We are playing on Sunday, July15th @ 2pm here in Jacksonville at Wardogs on Beach Blvd.  All are welcome.  We will choose sides and I will introduce them to Starmada X.