Skip to forum content
mj12games.com/forum
Majestic Twelve Games Discussion Forum
You are not logged in. Please login or register.
Active topics Unanswered topics
Welcome to the new Majestic Twelve Games Forum!
Play nice. (This means you.)
Logins from the previous forum have been carried over; if you have difficulty logging in, please try resetting your password before contacting us. Attachments did not survive the migration--many apologies, but we're lucky we kept what we could!
Search options (Page 2 of 2)
It was actually a 50-50 as to what the Danes would get...literally.
I rolled a dice. Odds would mean the Danes got fire arrows, evens hale rockets. I rolled a one
Well, I would have simply selected hale rockets since they seem a more widespread tech, and the Fire Arrows so far are restricted primarily to White Russian and Chinese. However, as a I said there's nothing at all 'wrong' with Danes using fire arrows from some objective sense, I'd just have designed the Danes (or anyone else) differently if I had written them. Of course, that's the fun of sharing designs here, seeing how other people take the same idea and run in very different directions with it!
-Will
Man, don't worry about it. We all have bad days/weeks/months. I don't think you've been out of line at all, and during the time I've been here I've seen your input as valuable.
-Will
Seriously... there's bound to be some size creep, especially in the smaller classes. But at the same time, this is going to be a fleet-specific thing; what the Japanese might consider a destroyer (albeit a large one), another nation might call a light cruiser. This happened in the age of sail all the time -- the US Navy was notorious for "mislabeling" its ships, annoying the Brits to no end...
Well, afaik, the size creep tended towards the largest classes (battleships tripled or more in displacement over a couple of decades), not the smaller ones (as much), but I see your point and agree with it. I also think some navies would be very interested in the 'super-destroyer' or destroyer-leader concepts like the pre-WWI Russians considered trying, and the new Japanese destroyer seems to be a perfect example of that sort of ship.
@themattcurtis- I said it was a future risk to consider, not the state of the game at present.
-Will
But if every nation has access to every weapon, and every nation is fighting in the same "ocean", and every nation's admiral uses the same tactics (one player will play with the same style for any nation's navy), then what makes one nation's navy different from another? Why have individual nations at all?
I admit this worries somewhat as well. Since there are no rules to prevent 'tech-sloshing' beyond a general consensus on this board on what each nation has there is a distinct chance of a cookie-cutter effect and cherry-picking of the best technologies (like the Danes and Fire Arrows, perfectly effective but not very fluff-compatible, imho) as time goes on. Now I don't mind the flexability this does allow (Like with the Danes, they can become whatever John wants them to become) , and it's true that in the contempary naval development scene ships were differentiated primarily by design qualities they empahasised rather then technology they used (and many weapons were sold on the open market anyway). In addition with number of canon ships currently available the navies are still fairly different in pratical doctraine. So I can't really say that I want a new set of rules dictacting who has what, just that I hope that as the game develops we see particular attention paid to how the navies really are different beyond thier individual ships. So far I think MJ12 has been doing a great job, so my level of worry is only moderate. 
As for the destroyer itself, it seems pretty effective. Though I've noticed that there's been a push towards much larger destroyers recently. In the first book a big destroyer was 3 Hull Spaces- now this new Japanese design is a big some of the light crusiers!
-Will
I'll second the idea that landlocked nations would be just as likely to send up Ether-ships are ones with navies. I also wouldn't simply lock into 'ocean going dreadnaughts = space navy' system (even though I don't think all the listed countries need ether-dreadnaughts either). For example, Belguim was just as colonially active as the Netherlands, even though they didn't emphasis naval development, and it's unlikely they would ignore the space race completely. The altered timeline of the setting also changes some things. For example, the 'ABC powers' cooperate much more closely in this timeline then they did in the real life. Whats to say the Scandanavians wouldn't pull together in a similar fashion and field some sort of combined force for thier mutual benefit, for example?
I guess in the end the real question is not 'who should be up there' but 'how many can we get before they all start to feel the same'. Fewer more unique feeling factions is always better then a multitude of ones that don't have as much individual flavor, imho.
I'll add I'd also love ship fluff. I can deal with the timeline not going forward, but just a book of stats seems kinda flat. Even a couple of short paragraphs for each design would be plenty. If you need volunteers....
-Will
Sorry I didn't see these sooner, very fun little set of designs.
As for the fluff, it's probably a tad anchronistic, but in order to get the Swiss involved maybe they get involved in mercenary work again? That gives them an excuse to build some Ether-ships and keep abreast of foreign developments without completly breaking thier vaunted neutrality.
Love the clockwork design = gyroscope connection too, pretty clever peice of fluff.
-Will
For the first scenario I can't see the Turks just destroying a Greek freighter out of hand. Maybe change it so that the Turks are chasing a Greek flagged freighter they accuse of smuggling or something and the Greek Squadron has to rescue it? I might also change the battleship VP's to player's lose VP's based on your own battleship's damage- that better reflects how each side would prize thier own battleships, I think.
The second scenario is a pretty straightforward slugfest. Maybe remove the Aguirre and one or two of the Casma and change the scenario to the Chileans trying to destroy the Indepencia on it's post-delivery workup cruise in order to send a message. The Peruvians just need to get the Indepencia out alive.
-Will
Just to be pedantic, there is no Thailand circa 1910's- It's called Siam. :wink:
-Will
All irrelevant. The French are established and my ships ain't in there.
That's too bad, I really liked this set. Any hints on what the 'real' French look like?
Definitely looking forward to seeing the Americans.
-Will
True enough, I hadn't really looked at how launch rates might effect her operations when I built her. That's an extra incentive to keep the Sankt Georg next to her though, as anything that tries to gives the Maria Theresa trouble is going to get whomped something fierce once the Georg opens up.
I really need to badger my brothers into a game tonight and give her a spin myself.
-Will
So no feedback on the designs? I know the Zenta was pretty typical, but I'm interested in hearing what people think of a 18 FAC design!
-Will
Sorry for the long delay in replying. I really like the designs- the strong secondary battery balanced damage wise with the primary is an interesting paradigm. I've noticed that your French seem to consider Babbage Engines pretty standard on thier larger ships. Any fluff reason for this?
I really like the Invaincu. As an interesting possibility, if the doctrine is to drop FAC, turn away and run maybe a mine factor or three would be appropriate?
EDIT: forgot to ask, what's the Invaincu's flight group consist of?
The Fusilier is a pretty tough looking destroyer, but also pretty expensive (almost as expensive as the CL) and it appears to only has a single sister. I don't know what sort of Ether-presence you envision the French having, but I could see the French needing a more numerous (and cheaper) boat for patrol duties and the like.
Individually the designs are good, together as a fleet they look like a blast to play!
-Will
And as far as the whole wet navy thing, there is a big difference in courting ship builders and being interested in owning a modern BB and actually having purchased two of them and being on hand to collect them. Intentions aren't the same as possession.
I should have stated this more clearly- the only reason the Rio De Janerio became the Sultan Osman I and not Venizelos or some other Greek name is becuase the Greeks took too long to negotiate the loan needed to purchase it. The Turks got it on a fluke, essentially. The Greeks had already ordered the dreadnought battleship Salamis from a German Yard when the war broke out, and had ordered the larger Vasileus Konstantinos from a French Yard (after they failed to convince the French to sell them an already completed ship!). They also considered buying a copy of the Kongo class, but instead decided to try to buy the Valiant from the British. When the British refused to sell the completed ship the Greeks decided to order a sister ship instead.
So the Greeks did 'posses' several dreadnoughts at least as much as the Turks did!
I definitivly agree with you that not everyone and thier uncle should get capital ships- the Danes or the Swedes getting them seems very silly, for example. It would wreck the flavor of the era if any nation could field ether-battleships. However, if the Turks can get a fleet inspired by thier 'might of been' wet-navy, there's no reason the Greeks can't. I'd prefer a greek fleet that was less uniform and made up of purchased ships (Not that John's ships aren't cool).
-Will
They were not , from what I can find, as close to fielding modern BBs as the Turks. And that was why I had the Turks fielding modern ships in IS.
Eh, not quite true from what I've read. I don't have my references handy (already packed up to move home for the summer) but iirc the Greeks were just as engaged in the bidding process for the South American BB's that came up for sale just before WWI as the Turks where (being funded by the French), and had a better shot at getting them (out of the 4 countries actively trying to purchase them). They also actively courted French shipbuilders for dreadnaught battleships. Once I have my sources handy again I'll post a more complete summary. But basically, the Greeks were highly interested in acquiring naval assests to match the Turks. In the Iron Stars setting I see no reason to believe the Greeks wouldn't attempt to do the same.
-Will
So we are hitting the First World War with the next book? I wonder if the ABC powers will want revenge on Great Britain and the Soviets could easily be a huge wild card. Sounds fun.
-Will
Meant to post this last weekend, but life got in the way. Here are two new ships for my favorite faction, the Austro-Hungarians.
Maria Theresa class Carrier- with the construction of the Ferenc Nadasdy the Sternmarine had taken a decisive lead in the area of space carrier doctraine and operations. However, the years following the Merchant War the Austrians watched as thier old foe the Italians constructed a carrier with similar capabilties (the Claudio Monteverdi) and the Bolshovieks were reported to have a ship that could carry nearly as many FAC's. While the Italians were technically allies and the Reds far away to the east the Sternmarine's leadership knew other nations would follow suite. In order to extend what many felt was thier sole strategic advantage the keel of the second Sankt Georg class (which had just been laid down) was converted to a new large carrier design. This ship could carry a flight group twice as large as the Ferenc Nadasdy and bristled with a large anti-FAC battery of machine gun and rockets. With it's fairly good speed it is intended to run the Maria Theresa and her 'half brother' Sankt Georg as a combined force, delivery powerful guns and a mighty flight group to battle.
Zenta class Escort Cruiser- As the Maria Theresa was being assembled some thought was given to what sort of ships should escort it (beyond the Sankt Georg; there were many who felt this ship was enough!). To this end a series of small cruisers were laid down to protect carriers and aid the FAC-defense of any fleet. The Zenda had a weak gun armament but carried number of machine guns and rockets to ward off FAC's. Several of this class are planned.
So there's the fluff. As usual, any feedback or comments are appreciated!
-Will
Yea, I hope the Sankt Georg ends up being a useful asset to a fleet's 'air defense' along with bringing enough firepower to lay down the hurt on the Dual Monarchy's enemies.
As for new Austro-Hungarian ships to protect the empire from Reds and hostile powers, I already have two more on the drawing board, will probably post them this weekend. The Sankt Georg was actually intended in part to provide heavy escort to the new fleet carrier currently being laid down.... 
-Will
Ok, here's an updated version of the Battlecruiser. Reduced the Torpedos slightly, scaled back the Machine guns to make room for 5 Hale Rockets as suggested. Thanks for the feedback, if anyone thinks it could use more changes don't hesitate to pip up.
And I certaintly didn't mean to sound like I was criitizing the Janos Hunyadi- I think it's a very capable design, and good enough that I question if my own heavy weight design is really needed at all! Maybe it would be better to try to design a medium weight cruiser, as the gap between the 19 Hull Janos Hunyadi and the 7 Hull Huszar leaves a niche to be filled....
-Will
Decided the best way to get a hang for what works was to just start and see what you guys think. Here's my first ship, an Austrian Battlecruiser. Now the Austrians already have a big cruiser (the Janos Hunyadi is quite huge, actually), but I decided to build this new ship to slightly different specs. Same armor, slightly faster, slightly more gun and torpedo power. The main feature is that it carries a battery of machine-guns to ward off FAC's (fluff-wise I'm envisioning this being a post-merchant war design, so more 'AA' would be a desired feature). Though I have noticed the Janos has a large light battery which might do the job just as well, I dunno. Anyway, eagerly awaiting feedback!
-Will
Just picked up all three books as PDF's from RPGNow, have to say I'm very impressed. Rules seem very straight forward (with a couple of neat innovations, the momentum idea is a good example) and the special equipment is just right- cool effects, not too many rules. Love the background, espcially happy to see my beloved Austro-Hungarians leading the way in space combat doctraine! My only question at the moment, being an incorrigible Yank, is when the the Americans going to be putting on appearence?
-Will
Posts found: 26 to 45 of 45