I'm also very confused as well (and YES sleepless to boot since it's 2 AM  ). Oddly, I get the general "feel" that was intended for the new movement rules and I'm sure I will like the end result... just when I'll have any hint on how they're supposed to work. I must say also that they are very poorly explained. I can already picture a revision on section 3.0 for SAE version 1.1 :wink:   

So...

If I understand the rules and what has been said in this thread correctly, the system is NOT inertia-based like in Full Thrust... notwithstanding the opening paragraph of rules 3.0. For instance, if on turn 2 my speed is 8 and I use 4 more thrust points to accelerate on the following turn my speed for turn 3 becomes 12; ie on turn 3 the ship moves 12 inches (or hexes).

So in SAE that's NOT what is happening - speed does NOT add up from turn to turn, meaning as with S:X you cannot go faster than your current engine rating. It also means, like S:X, that on turn 3 if you traveled at your max speed and on turn 4 you don't wish to move at all you stay in that hex; you make a dead stop.

So what has changed from S:X is only the way you calculate turns (or course changes), how you perform them and if you get engine damage then inertia principles apply.

How's that??

Awesome ... I just got billed under BOTH accounts now ...

EDIT 18/12/07

I just got billed for one transaction after all ... thanks to the swift action of the staff at rpgnow.com.

Thank you all for you replies. Next paycheck I get I will probably download the full rules. I yet have to go through the free ones but I know I can't go wrong with Defiance. Someone lent me his copy of Stargrunt and while it is advertised as a 25mm game, it also seems to work best in 15mm.

Demian, thank you for your offer. I will send you a PM later on once I go through the rules, as I won't understand much if I don't even have a basic grasp of what's going on 

Speaking of 28/25mm vs 15mm, I'm hesitating. On one hand the 28/25mm scale has much more sci-fi model ranges, yet you have more flexibility at the 15mm scale. But in 15 mm scale I only know of GZG and Brigade Models making models. Suggestions?

Well I did give the EuroFeds a -1 tech modifiers for engines. OTOH they got a +1 mod for special equipment. I went for fluff'n flavor instead of everyone's mini-max favorite of +1 weapons/-1 equipment.

Regarding close-in weapons and the NHD and MRRP "abilities" I agree with the provision that weapons with those attributes may not fire on fighters; otherwise the potential for abuse would be staggering. If you take a RMG3, TH 3+ ROF-3/PEN-1/DMG-1 weapon at standard tech levels it'd cost 8.0 SUs whereas the same weapon with NHD and MRRP would cost 1.7 SUs. I once designed a ship with such weapons with wide arcs (something like ABCD, ABCE, ABCDEF, etc) and I thought I was really smart ... until I re-read the rules    .

Currently my favorite anti-fighter weapon (aside for battlesats- I just found out they are pretty effective fighter killers) is as follows : RNG3, TH 3+ ROF-3/PEN-1/DMG-1 with the 're-roll to-hit dice" ability, coupled with all-round coverage with overlapping arcs. They are particularly effective when mounted on small escorts.

Going back to the new EuroFed ships, I like the new designs -both aesthetically and the S:X stats. I would have put more fighters on the Umberto carrier, just to put it in the same league as the carriers from the other powers, which carry hordes of flights.

Same here...

And if somehow there's a new rule change that says that fighters ignore shields I have to say I don't like it. I think that fighters halving shields but only scoring a hit on a 5-6 is a well balanced system. But that's me!

According to the strict reading of the PDS rules, and thus given the absence of any mention of fighters,  the rule-lawyer in me says that officially (AFAIK) fighter fire IS intercepted by PDS, BUT the common-sense wargammer in me feels that perhaps it shouldn't.   

I never really used PDS systems in the past, and I was writing stats for a new fleet and decided to use the buggers. For instance I have a size 6 CL with shields-3 and PDS. So if normal fighters attack it, they would normally score PEN hits on a 3+ (3/2 = 1.5, RU = 2) BUT because of the PDS only PEN rolls of 4 and 6 would get through. Given that you have to pay extra in terms of cost and space for PDS that seemed fair.

If you add to the mix AFBs though, that little ship becomes particularly fighter-resilient   :twisted: ... interesting...

Another thing I also noticed with PDSs (I'm sure, again, that this has been discussed before) is when you fit one on a shield-5 ship, you get no benefit vs PEN rolls, but when what I call the "flood driver" gets in (ie when you finally get that shield hit, dropping shields to 4) you still get that protection from the PDS (ie ignoring '5's). It almost acts like a surefire Redundant Shielding system.

I like using minis (and collecting and painting them), but counters are much cheaper and practical.

My favorite method is to print them out, cut them in hexagonal shapes and mount them on flat, black plastic hex bases (like the ones for Heavy Gear mecha), using blu-tak to make them adhere. The whole set up looks very neat, and the counters are much easier to handle since they are heightened by the plastic hex base. Plus being able to interchange counters on and off like that allows for infinite fleet possibilities.

Wouldn't that be 10 x 2 = 20 pts of DMG ?

1-3 = 1 pen roll
4-5 = 2
6 = 3

so 1 (1) 2 (1) 2(1) 4(2) 5(2) 6(3) = (10)

unless I missed something  :?

Tony, what would be the Milano and Insidioso's assigned size vlaues? As soon as I know I'll send the two designs.

I'll do the Milano and the Insidioso; BTW they look ABSOLUTELY awesome. If I had money   , I'd buy a few of each right now.

I REALLY urge you to 'flesh out' the fleet following the same design. For instance, a heavy cruiser, cruiser, and frigate that share the same design pattern would be awesome.

In the write-up I did last year I put the Italians in the ONESS camp, so I was thinking that I would put a splinter Italian faction with the EuroFed, which would explain the new designs (and the Italian names!).

All I need are the size values for each ship.

Again, EVEN IF NO ONE LISTENS OR CARES , crew quality modifiers. The Enterprise run by cadets should be no match for the Enterprise with Kirk and co.

Also I think I had something going with unreliable or weakened systems. I said "I think"