26

(46 replies, posted in Starmada)

I wonder if the movement sequence will port over? From my limited SFB experience (tried to learn it a couple of times, Fed Commander also), energy management, shields and movement were pretty core elements to tactics. The first seems extremely problematic to adapting to Starmada (good luck!)  The second's a no-brainer, and the third in-between. Sometimes in Starmada it *would* be nice to turn, fire, move, fire again, etc. I just dread SFB's solution. Would it work to break the movement into two phases (or more, depending on the speeds involved), with options to fire each weapon once anytime during the turn? I did something like that for a Kirk vs. Kahn game, and it seemed to go pretty well.

27

(46 replies, posted in Starmada)

Yeah... ADB is not allowed to use the word "Trek" in any context.

So I guess the whole "Trekmada" idea was doomed from the start?
:oops:

Anyway, looking forward to it. Maybe now I can even get my non-wargaming rpg buddies to give it a try!

28

(46 replies, posted in Starmada)

Actually, there's been quite a lot of *spirited* discussion about KA, what form it might take, different approaches to the rules. I think it's important for Dan to hear all viewpoints.

While recognizing that this has to be "SFB Starmada" (and not a straight "Starmada version of Trek in general"), I think there's probably some "unique to SFB concepts" that could be tagged as optional or advanced rules. Things that would make the casual gamer say, "What? That doesn't feel like Trek." The more generic it is, the more like mainline Trek it will appear, while staying within the bounds of the SFU.

Given that the new movie, which is garnering rave reviews, is set in an alternate universe as well, I think folks will be very open to giving KA a try. Very timely. How'd you manage that?

29

(7 replies, posted in Starmada)

Having a "canon universe" with established races, plotlines, etc., would be a good thing. It's hard for a generic ruleset to attract attention without having specifics to capture the imagination of players, this I know from the rpg side of the hobby. Champions, for instance, could be about *anything* but players tend to gravitate towards the pre-established superhero universe. And, even tho I don't go for it, the RPGA rakes in players with their "Living Greyhawk" type series of adventures. A big master plotline in a set universe, with a series of programmed adventures and a programme of advancement (like earning ranks) for participating in adventures--that certainly resonates with some.

The trick is to balance the "official" side of things, while still having enough grey areas that creative types feel free to invent and create. If M12 decided to go that route, it would probably be one of their biggest decisions as a company.  It could take you down paths that you hadn't forseen (books and movies?) It could just be the tale that wags the corporate dog (for better or worse.) Then again, it might lead nowhere.

As such, I'd think carefully about what the canon universe is. While i like the ISS material, it may or may not be the best vehicle to provide the kind of loose/tight structure and organization that you're looking for. Just like any good story, there should be some over-arching themes, prominent characters, and conflict.

Lots of conflict.

30

(24 replies, posted in Starmada)

Well, I think it's "to each their own." Some settings (Star Wars) cry out for heroes, while in others (Honor Harrington?) it would matter much less. So, what's right? Answer: whatever you and your friends want to play.

I think it's a good thing for a generic starship system to present the full spectrum of possibilities (like cinematic and realistic movement rules,) and let the players decide. (At least, so far as it's practical to do so.)

31

(24 replies, posted in Starmada)

Most excellent! I like where this is headed. I'm really an rpg-er, so any excuse to add in a little story/drama is a good thing. (The best space battles have a really good story and memorable characters.)

The only thing I'd add to the discussion is allowing a range of flexibility for our "heroes," with the limitation that it increases the cost. Heroes with "dedicated" bonuses should be cheaper, while more expensive "heroes" could have a number of bonuses that they can allot more flexibly.

Examples:
  Cheapest: A "Scotty" who only provides a +1 bonus to shields
  One who provides a floating +1 to use on general shipboard systems
  A Scotty who has 3 bonus points per round
  Most Expensive: a Jedi-level hero who would have all kinds of crazy bonuses that can be moved around on the fly

Players would have to be in agreement on whether they're using "heroes" or not. (And how they're implemented, since these rules could/should range from realistic to cinematic.)

You'd also need a mechanic that allows one player to kill, kidnap or disable the hero. (Thus, the "mega Scotty" wouldn't quite be equal to three ordinary "Scotties.")

Re: two ships in the same hex...

I can think of lots of fun solutions, from "all weapons can fire" (since you pass one another, going from one facing prior to the turn, to the opposite afterwards)...to random die rolls...to "use the arcs from the previous turn"...Or zoom in on the action: Mark out a "mega hex" (a hex and the 6 surrounding hexes) to represent the contested area, and park each ship on the side that it entered.

And miniatures needn't get in the way--just throw down a marker to represent the hex where they meet.

33

(1 replies, posted in Game Design)

Ok, so this is pretty tangential, but I'll ask anyway...

I want to know if there's a basic formula for Pirates of the Spanish Main. Studying the most vanilla ships in the game, I came up with the following point-costs (does anyone know of a more comprehensive effort?):

Masts: .4 pts per

Hold: .2 pts per

Speed:
S = .4 pts
L = .8
SS = 1.2
SL = 1.6
LL = 2 pts
SSS = 2.4
SSL = 2.8
SLL = 3.2
LLL = 3.6

Cannons (cost per)
Short Range: 2+ = 2 pts., 3+ = 1.5 pts, 4+ = 1pt, 5+ = .5 pts
Long Range: 2+ = 2.5 pts., 3+ = 2 pts, 4+ = 1.5 pts, 5+ = 1 pt

34

(60 replies, posted in Starmada)

Second on the crew options. Would be nice to have cinematic "hero" rules (maybe even making it customizable, so that Starbuck's fighter flight plays different than Luke Skywalker's, for example.)

35

(10 replies, posted in Starmada)

Is the changing ORAT the reason weapon range is in multiples of 3? I'd assumed that it was to avoid min-maxing/munchkinism. (It would be easy enough to divide any weapon range--say, range 10--into thirds, rounding off.)

Speaking of record sheets, can we have a spot for notes?

Puh-leeeze?

I'd also like to see a default spot for a graphic of the ship, although to do fancy-schmancy handouts, I copy the official record sheet as a graphic and then paste it onto the rh side of a MS Word doc.

37

(5 replies, posted in Starmada)

Actually, I wasn't planning on having players build the ships themselves, anticipating newbies who need to learn the system (and to be honest, a gm who's still green.)

So I'm trying to balance forces of roughly the same strength, from totally different universes. (Star Wars, Trek, B5 and Galactica). There are many fine conversions out there, but they're consistent only within their own universes, not across franchises.

The plan is to start small, with a few key iconic ships. Write a kewl scenario, and let it evolve from there.

38

(5 replies, posted in Starmada)

Ok, so I'm thinking of running some introductory games at cons. Just to make things thoroughly complicated I wanted to to do a crossover adventure AND represent the different tech levels. See if you agree...

Trek (TOS & Movie Era)
  Engine: 1
  Fighter: -2
  General: 1
  Shield: 1
  Weapon: 1

Trek (TNG)
  Engine: 2
  Fighter: -1
  General: 2
  Shield: 2
  Weapon: 2

Star Wars
  Engine: 0
  Fighter: 2
  General: 1
  Shield: 0
  Weapon: -1

BSG (new)
  Engine: -1
  Fighter: 1
  General: -1
  Shield: -2
  Weapon: -2

Babylon 5 (Earth Alliance)
  Engine: -2
  Fighter: 0
  General: -2
  Shield: -1
  Weapon: 0

Babylon 5 (Minbari)
  Engine: -1
  Fighter: 1
  General: 0
  Shield: -1
  Weapon: 1

Babylon 5 (Minbari/Vorlon Hybrid
  Engine: 0
  Fighter: 1
  General: 1
  Shield: 0
  Weapon: 2

I think the whole idea of "canon" is pretty suspect. To me, TOS, ST:TMP, Movie Treks II-V, TNG/DS9/Voyager and Enterprise all represent slightly different universes, alternate realities. I think the new movie is going to be different enough that it's going to be hard to shoehorn it into the established continuity. (And, saying that it *doesn't* fit, that it's a "reboot," doesn't that automatically make it an alternate universe from the accepted one?)

My main concern is that they have a plan of some sort of where they're going to go with this if it's successful. Are they going to do a series of original movies? A tv show? How will the original material fit in? (People love to hate Berman and Braga, but they did oversee more hours of Trek, good and bad, than anyone else. Managing these franchises is almost as important as the individual films. Need proof? Look at the Alien series.)

J MIchael Straczinzki had a plan where they would reboot trek, featuring a blend of classic stories retold along with new scripts. (Good plan, tho' he is not involved in this project at all.) Personally, I got no problem with that. That kind of treatment is ok for Shakespeare...

Speaking of Balance of Terror (again, Trek at its best with a suspensfull story, great actors/script and a super tactical scenario), has anyone introduced any *simple* rules into Starmada that address detection/evasion, ecm, etc.?

I've heard that the new movie will be an alternate-universe, which suits me fine. Seems like every incarnation of Trek that comes along is a slightly different version of the same beast. The movies don't fit the series (or each other!) "Enterprise" seemed completely out of step with TOS. The longest run on consistency was TNG/DS9/Voyager.

Just thinking about Trek, I'd say my three favorite starship battles:

"Best of Both Worlds" otherwise known as the Battle of Wolf 359. And it was, minute for minute, the best of all Trek worlds.

the Doomsday Machine: with a great 3-way cat-and-mouse game between the crippled Constellation, the Enterprise and the unicorn horn from hell.

The Wrath of Khan: just a perfect movie on so many levels. A great reboot to the film series.

Don't want to spoil your day, but that topic has already been settled from the top dogs. It has been explicity stated that the Starmada version of SFB will try to duplicate the system's features, fighters, warts and all.

Like you, I would prefer the Starmada version of SFB to veer towards TOS, or the *flavor* of combat established in movies: "ships of sail on the high seas" kind of feeling. To me, drones and fighters undercut the difference between Trek and Star Wars.

(And before someone replies--I understand you can't write up ships of the movie or TNG era. However, you absolutely could go for the same kind of tactical feeling--sailing ships--and still stay safely within licence).

Such a product would fit right in with the new Trek movie coming out which I think will be shown as an "alternate universe" to TOS. I think there's more money to be made in expanding the market, than selling to a base that already plays SFB.

But, as I said, it's been decided otherwise.

43

(6 replies, posted in Starmada)

AWESOME!!!

Using cardboard counters is often easier--images are all over the internet for any genre you want to do. But kudos to you for re-using these very intriguing images. (Think I'll try a google search of "macro photography" and see if I can find some myself!)

Personally, I like keeping them glued flat. Steve Jackson Games has a line of multicolored bases that work well with them, too.

After you're done with combat, wanna post their stats?

44

(56 replies, posted in Starmada)

I'll leave it to you smart "maths" types to figure out whether the cost of ultra-long-range weapons is right or not. (I suspect it is not...)

What bugs me about the idea of 30-hex range is that it undermines the simulation aspect. It doesn't *FEEL* like a real weapon  (at least not one that I can wrap my brain around. Izzit a missile? Beam wep? No, I'm attacking you with a rule loophole! Ultra-long range weapons ought to have either: a delay in hitting, an increasing accuracy penalty, a weakening of their strength or have the potential of being shotdown/disappated.

(An ultra-long range weapon should probably be based on fighters/strikers, which nicely do almost all of the above.)

Secondly, Range doesn't exist all by itself, it has to live with movement/speed to create a sense of what is short, medium or long distances in the game. To be able to hit anything on the board kinda destroys your feeling of "near" and "far."

Finally, I don't think other ship designs are totally irrelevant, either. I'm not saying "pander to the lowest common denominator" or "the weakest player." As players (and M20) develop ship designs, they're building a consensus about what numerical values should go into the different components of a Starmada ship (Hull 100? No. Hulls are 30 or less.) A Range of 30 isn't as "distorted" a value as Hull 100, but is pushing the envelope.

45

(91 replies, posted in Starmada)

30 hexes is pretty big--if you're anywhere near the center, it's almost everything on the friggin map!!! Yowza!

Do you discuss rules or weapon options limitations before playing, and if so, should range limitations be part of the discussion? How about limits on the value of individual weapon systems? If not, I guess that's what you get in an "anything goes" kind of game rather than some kind of established millieux.

The suggestions given (cloak, etc) seem solid countermeasures.

As an alternative to adjusting the CR, perhaps there could be inherent penalties that kick in as range increases, to help levelize these ultra-long range weapons? Thinking in terms of what you would logically expect to see, any really long-range gun/beam/missile ought to be slower, weaker, vulnerable to countermeasuress...or else very, very expensive (leaving an opening somewhere else in the ship design.)

46

(2 replies, posted in Starmada)

DieCon was *very* well attended, and continues to grow. The amount of miniatures gaming in general was overwhelming, which just seemed to underscore the lack of starship stuff. Amusingly, ADB had a stack of black-and-white fliers out, but not one demo game.

47

(11 replies, posted in Starmada)

Read the review, and one point jumped out--why have two idententical ship print-outs side-by-side? Seemed a bit odd when I first saw it. In the future, perhaps two variants of the same class could be presented?

48

(2 replies, posted in Starmada)

What do the following items have in common?

Wrath of Khan
Babylon 5
Honor Harrington
Every Star Wars film
Battlestar Galactica

Yep, they all feature exciting ship-to-ship space combat, and incidentally, what caused me (a long-time rpg player) to take up spaceship wargaming. About a year ago, I began my quest, looking for miniatures to inspire, and a game to play.

To my surprise, trips to my FLGS turned up no games, no minis, nothing. So I visited other stores, including ones that catered SPECIFICALLY to the minis crowd—same result.

OK…you can find anything at a con's dealer's room, right? So next I went to Egyptian Campaign and DieCon, small and medium-sized game cons. Here's what I found: one box of out-of-print Star Frontiers minis, and no rules or games for sale at all! Most disturbing, out of literally DOZENS of tables of miniatures games (WWII games, fantasy games, mecha games, naval games…) there was only ONE game session devoted to starships(FASA's Star Trek.)

Now, I know tastes change, genres wax and wane. Maybe this is just a down cycle. Or maybe it's time to step it up. I'd like to challenge veterans to get out there, be visible, and actively try to recruit new players.

I'd also like to challenge game designers to do the same, and to work towards games that work at all levels, and attract all tastes.

If big space battles can sell movie tickets, they ought to be able to sell a few games.

49

(10 replies, posted in Starmada)

The question about "which weapon gets slagged?" reminded me of a house rule I was toying with. It would seem to make sense that if you score a hit, it would have to be on a weapon that FACES you (if one is available.) Anyone play it that way?

50

(28 replies, posted in Starmada)

I've been really happy with Starmada and ISS. The books aren't that expensive, and you get a ton of useful stuff for your dough. I'll probably be happily buying them for a while.

The danger with all these rules comes when special cases make rules work in some settings, but not others. Or, you get an escalating series of special cases--ugh.

From posts and other comments, it seems Dan & the Admiralty is well aware of that trap. So, keep 'em coming! Where should we be looking for hints at what's headed our way?