1

(8 replies, posted in Starmada)

One other thought for the next revision: "Damaged" and "Crippled" counters might help players remember on which target they're concentrating fire.

2

(8 replies, posted in Starmada)

OldnGrey wrote:
mundungus wrote:

If they each had a different letter, it could be the first letter of the ship's name.

I did consider something like this but it falls down a bit if someone has a fleet with ships with names such as Apollo, Achilles, Agrippa, Archer, Avenger . . . . .

This unfortunate person could use C, G, R, V.

mundungus wrote:

BTW, my color printer (an HP 2610) can't print on the bottom 3/4" of the page. Is there any way you could shift things slightly so that none of the counters are within 3/4" of any edge?

There should be a 2cm or more gap, is your adobe reader in agreement with your printer? I sometimes find that I have changed a setting somewhere when I have any print problem. See if I can change anything without making them smaller.

Nothing is cut off in the PDF when viewed in Adobe reader. The gap looks like less than 2cm both on screen at "actual size" an on the printed page. I notice the page size is "8.27x11.69". Is that one of those European "A" paper sizes?

(This printer always cuts off about the bottom 5/8" of a page.)

3

(8 replies, posted in Starmada)

OldnGrey wrote:

How will you indicate which ship each counter represents, making a note on the back?

If they each had a different letter, it could be the first letter of the ship's name.

BTW, my color printer (an HP 2610) can't print on the bottom 3/4" of the page. Is there any way you could shift things slightly so that none of the counters are within 3/4" of any edge?

Thanks for your work on these -- they look great!

4

(8 replies, posted in Starmada)

I gave the Nova rules a try at lunch today. We got through a Breakout scenario (Imperial Belligerent + 4xMajestic attacking Arcturan Dokujin + 3xKyouwa) with about seven players, almost all noobs, in well under an hour! The Arcturans got slaughtered on turn 3.

Two suggestions for the counter sheet:

1) Could we get some speed 0 counters? Otherwise, there's no marker for ships that fired but didn't move.

2) I'd like to see vector counters, described on p. 35.

Finally, are there any errata for the Nova rulebook?

5

(51 replies, posted in Starmada)

Ozymandias wrote:

Hmm I see the problem.

How's about this for an alternative: ship would move forward equal to its velocity, and then could use its thrust to move itself  anywhere within its thrust rating of that end point. This wouldn't have to change its facing if you're set on ships facing their direction of travel. The current velocity would be equal to the distance from the final end point to the start point, and the facing could snap to the nearest hex facing along the vector between origin and end point.

This would let us perform those wide sweeping turns at high velocity and sounds almost as simple?

I rather like this.

6

(51 replies, posted in Starmada)

(Some of this is restated from a previous email conversation with Dan.)

I REALLY like this system.

I will argue for a slight modification: allow 2 OR MORE turns in the third category (what you've called "reverse course"). This would give a ship with plenty of engines a much wider range of ending hexes and allow for fancy weaving around any terrain.

Is it realistic? Hard to say -- this system doesn't really model what happens within a turn.

Also, I have concerns about the term "come about". It's not really accurate either the way it was used before (which is common in sci fi) or the new way; it has to do with the direction of the wind. Changing it from the old meaning could confuse some players. If you're going to use it incorrectly, you should at least be consistent. Alternately, you could simply not introduce any terminology.

So I'd argue for:

TURNS     MIN     MAX
0         s-t     t+s
1         0       t
2+        0       t-s

where s is speed and t is thrust. A ship may not turn if s > t.

7

(297 replies, posted in Starmada)

I volunteer to playtest. :ugeek:

Pinecone wrote:

are you using reduced tech levels perhaps?

Nope, the tech level fields are blank.

On a related note, how come 100 carrier capacity costs 120 SU? Was there a rules change?

The weapon trait "Ignores Shields" from the Rules Annex is not listed in version 2.2 of the shipbuilder. What's up?

11

(2 replies, posted in Starmada)

Does anyone have stories of battles that were decided by tactics rather than ship design?

12

(1 replies, posted in Starmada)

Occasionally there has been talk of an official Starmada T-shirt. Has anything come of this? If not, would anyone like to suggest anything relevant that is available?

I'll start with this one I designed:

http://www.cafepress.com/Thatwhichmustnotbealludedto

(Specifically, the one that says, "I'd rather be deploying the fleet.")

13

(23 replies, posted in Starmada)

BeowulfJB wrote:

Just do what we did:  Shipboard weapons in your games have a maximum range of 18. Period.

The more you curtail weapon ranges, the more interesting maneuver becomes. We've had some very fun games with the upper limit at 9.

You might try stacking up the defenses on your superdreadnoughts. 5 shields, 20 hull, armor, countermeasures, regeneration, stealth ... sure, they'll get some hits on you, but a lot of their firepower will be wasted.

If the enemy takes the "thousand points of light" strategy to an extreme, area effect weapons are your friend. If they dare not be adjacent, a large fleet must be spread over many hexes. You'll be able to attack the fringe of this fleet without being in range of all of it.

Oh, and certainly use the explosion rule.

14

(23 replies, posted in Starmada)

Governorflax wrote:

oh, pretty, definitely!  Otherwise why not use numbered pins on a tiny hex sheet instead of miniatures!

...or pencil on a tiny hex sheet on a clipboard. This could buy you fog-of-war, too.

This is something that's always bothered me about the whole starship miniatures genre: the table is taken up by a huge map, almost none of which is being used. On the other hand, the miniatures can be pretty, and pins/pencils could become problematic in a tight melee.

15

(23 replies, posted in Starmada)

OldnGrey wrote:

If players have already seen the ships to vote on them why would they buy the book?

Hmm, good point.

mundungus wrote:

What the world also needs is a shipbuilding program that could READ Drake notation.

the Drake notation format would have to be changed

I agree that the Drake notation as currently defined is not fully specified. (Well, it's implicitly specified in that the official shipbuilder can output Drake notation, and I believe every ship feature shows up in that output. There's just no explicit set of rules for how to read and write it.) It would have to be extended.

Some of the other issues only apply to spreadsheets. I said "program", though -- I didn't have a spreadsheet in mind, but more something like a stand-alone Java program.

How about a vote on record sheets, Pretty or functional?

I'm not sure pretty and functional are directly at odds, at least if you mean functional in the sense of useful during the game. For reading into a program or posting into a forum like this, Drake notation is definitely more functional (and considerably less than maximally pretty).

My ideal program would be able to read and write Drake notation and to produce pretty, printable sheets (probably PDF).

Is anyone here coming to GameStorm 12?

http://www.gamestorm.org/

17

(23 replies, posted in Starmada)

This inspires an obvious product idea: a book (or e-book) of hundreds of ships (and custom fighters) in Drake notation. It would be nearly trivial for Dan to put together.

1. Have players submit their favorite ships (probably as shipbuilder .xls files for easy verification).
2. Let players vote on which ones they like. Either select the top N ships, or any that get at least K votes. (An automated voting system would probably be worth the effort).
3. ...
4. Profit!


What the world also needs is a shipbuilding program that could READ Drake notation. (If it could print out prettier ship record sheets, even better -- I've had a player pull out old Star Fleet Battles books and say, "Now THIS is a ship record sheet!")

Alas, I don't have the time to write such a program, so I'll take the coward's way out and sit on the sidelines proclaiming that Someone ought to do it. :-)

18

(54 replies, posted in The Sovereign Stars)

cricket wrote:

I'm still hoping there are others out there who can playtest the current version (HINT HINT)

Indeed! The more testing (and the more testers) the better.

as there is not currently an "exploration" phase, having empty systems seems pointless.

IMHO, the non-system hexes are pointless.
<glances meaningfully over at OoM tiles>

In our test, it seemed very rare for a system to be within striking distance of more than two or three enemy systems. This, combined with the move-one-stack-at-a-time rule (which itself is probably a good one) and the time it takes to cross one's own empire, made it difficult to attack. The target had plenty of time to mount a defense.

I'm open to ideas on how to make the combat system more interesting/innovative...

That's a very tough call, especially if you want a battle to have the same result distribution whether it's resolved simply or using Starmada.

My inclination is to leave the combat system alone and have the board game interest derive from movement, victory conditions, etc.

19

(23 replies, posted in The Sovereign Stars)

Enpeze wrote:

A "tempo" mechanic to bring more action into the game is for example the (above post) mechanic that bases produces command points which allow a player to build fleets. If you allow only an amount of x bases per solar system, this means that he has to expand to found new bases and not just fortify and defend. This would inevitably lead to a dynamic game.

A similar limit is present in the current maintenance costs: since each system generates $3 per turn, you can only have three times as many units as you have systems. That leaves very few units for expeditionary forces. Also, since movement is so slow, you can't hope to coordinate a bunch of units for a surprise attack; the enemy will see them marching to the front.

You could theoretically increase your income with the bonus for bases in shared systems, but we found such systems too hard to build. For an alliance of two players to gain anything from this, they would need (combined) at least three bases in the system. (With two, nobody owns the system.) This costs $15 plus the time to move armies there and then build the bases, as well as the maintenance for the units involved. The player who contributes one base gets only $2 per turn; after $1 to maintain the base, that means this won't pay off for 5 turns. The player who contributes two bases gets only $1 additional per turn -- only enough to maintain the second base!

20

(23 replies, posted in The Sovereign Stars)

Enpeze wrote:

I am not fond of paperworking. I would prefer not to write even a single note on paper in SS. Keep it simple.

Hear, hear! (This may change if many optional rules are used, especially when incorporating with Starmada, but a stand-alone board game should at worst require pencils for scoring.)

OTOH I would love to see a way how to circumvent the trap of amassing more and stacks of ships.

I don't think that's directly the problem. The problem is when people choose to amass ships rather than exploring or fighting and the game becomes a stalemate.

Some kind of game "clock" would work wonders to prevent stalemates. The simplest clock is what older versions of Starmada scenario uses: the game ends after N turns. Games like Mastermind, Carcassonne, Agricola, and (to a lesser extent) Scrabble use this mechanism. More interesting is a clock that can be sped up or slowed down (but not stopped) by players' actions, as in Lost Cities, Tigris & Euphrates, Container, Ticket to Ride and Puerto Rico.

More discussion of this issue can be found here:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/32208/temporal-shifts-timing-mechanisms

21

(54 replies, posted in The Sovereign Stars)

cricket wrote:

You'll forgive me if I don't give up on it just yet.

Oh, I'm not suggesting you give up, just make radical changes ... and I have no idea what they should be.

As for goals, I think the two biggest things missing are:

1) Surprises. There's currently no way to have sneak attacks or sudden reversals of fortune. Someone pulls slightly ahead in the first couple of moves, then they very slowly pull farther and farther ahead.

2) Decisions of the low-risk-low-reward vs high-risk-high-reward variety. In Risk, I can make a grab for an entire continent; there's a big payoff if I pull it off, but I'll be hopelessly overextended if I don't quite make it. In Go, I can invade enemy territory. In Starmada, I can maneuver my torpedo boat (with its weak shields and powerful, short-ranged weapons) into the middle of the enemy formation, hoping I'll have a target in arc. Here ... not so much.

22

(54 replies, posted in The Sovereign Stars)

I ran the Jan 7 version past some playtesters. It was not a success.

Like me, they did like the way you cut the tiles. If nothing else, it makes manually manufacturing them easier.

They didn't like the last sentence at the end of the "Starting Positions" subsection. It's unsatisfying to say, "This might lead to an unsolvable problem; if that happens, start over."

Handing out money and then immediately taking some back for maintenance seemed overly fiddly.

People kept getting confused by the fact that there was a VP bonus for controlling an entire sector, but not an income bonus.

The bonus for bases in shared systems was not strong enough. If an ally and I share a system, we're going to have to put at least three bases (total) in there before our total income exceeds what we'd get if we didn't share. That takes too much time and money to be worth the effort.

One playtester described the game as "very incremental". Moving three hexes was generally just enough to get from one system to the next. There was no opportunity for surprise attacks and no way for a player who fell behind to catch up.

Ironically, maintenance may have made things more turtly, because people couldn't afford to amass big enough fleets to attack. Players could also not afford to leave fleets in deep space.

Someone said there was "nothing innovative" about the game. Another described it as "like slow-motion Risk".

One player said, "I'm not making interesting decisions battle-wise." I know the combat system has been kept simple to make it easier to coordinate with Starmada, but this may make it too bland for a stand-alone board game.

The testers wondered if the game should have an inherent clock to ensure that it eventually ends. One obvious suggestion is having VP accumulate every turn, although this risks a runaway leader problem.

One asked how long the game was supposed to last. I guessed 90-120 minutes. (We played for an hour before giving up.)

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but I guess it's better to find out now than after publication.

(If I may be bold, the OoM playtest I did went much better, although even that felt a bit bland.)

23

(54 replies, posted in The Sovereign Stars)

cricket wrote:

Again, I have a nice playtesting opportunity Thursday night. Would you like me to trot this out?

Sure.

Do you have a low-ink version of the sectors lying around?

cricket wrote:

What do y'all think of the bonus income for opponents' bases?

Interesting -- not clear what the effect will be.

If I were behind, though, I would hole up in a system with another weak player and have both of us build bases. Maybe that's okay, because it would become a huge target...

Hmm. Huge targets are always well-defended. Since we have armies, what if bases had no firepower (but could still be taken as casualties)? I'm not sure if it's a good idea or not.

24

(54 replies, posted in The Sovereign Stars)

It just keeps getting better!

A thought: what about ordering movement by income, rather than by number of systems? This would avoid a redundant counting (once for income, again for order) and probably result in fewer ties.

In a fancy production version of this, I'd want an income track so that it would be easy to see who's next and who's winning.

One must be careful not to pin down allies while reinforcing them, but that's probably okay.

I prefer allowing the primary player (since you've designated one) to allocate all hits among players. Right now, if I have one fleet in a system with ten allied fleets, I'm disinclined to help my ally because one of the first two hit will affect me.

Again, I have a nice playtesting opportunity Thursday night. Would you like me to trot this out?

25

(5 replies, posted in The Sovereign Stars)

cricket wrote:

Maybe I'm not being clear -- the idea would be that you can move a given unit as many times as you like each turn; but you have to pay each time a stack is moved.

Interesting, but weird. A rich player could shoot their fleet all the way across the galaxy.

BTW, you might need a kludge like TI has to allow players to swap forces between systems in one turn. Currently, if I move my forces from system A to (friendly) system B, I've pinned my own system B forces.

Not true -- activation markers apply only to the units in a moved stack, not to all units in the hex where they ended their move.

Although maybe it should be that way -- an activation marker is placed in the destination hex, and no units may move out of a hex with a marker. :?:

Yeah, I assumed the latter. Like I said, it allows pinning, which opens up some interesting strategic options.