1

(3 replies, posted in Starmada)

Hi guys,
My spreadsheet skills are not great but I have been trying to get the Drydock to work on open office and found some success, well sort of. Libreoffice 5 rather than OpenOffice seems to work with a single small tweak. On the weapons sheet change the acc column format numbers to text and it all appears to work...ish.

I have tried a couple of ships from the rules and the crat seems out. The imperial concordat is 770 rather than 755.  Probably a rounding error somewhere. On the ship sheet it is 769.

There obviously needs some more testing but with my poor spreadsheet skills I thought I would post my results so far and others might help some testing and post any changes from Dan's original needed.

It would help if we could have a working example in the drydock. Perhaps the good old Majestic could be added to show how. Dan?

2

(2 replies, posted in Starmada)

Played my first unity game, well the first 5 turns anyway. Imperial task force vs Arcturans. The game went very much as I remembered Admiralty edition felt but I suffered from 'first game syndrome'. Trying to find where the relevant rules where was a chore (as with all 'new' games). I was playing solo so the work load was high. However the game went well enough for a first play through, which sounds like faint praise but its not. The following straightforward, but I think vital, procedure Hit/Impact/Damage meant I could hear the Lighting Cannons discharge and the screams of the crew as shields collapsed under a devastaing Pulsed Particle Cannon barrage! Do I have a particlarly fevered imagination?

One observation - marking Ballistic weapons with a '*' at short range is a bit of a pain as you still need to know what short range is. Yes you can easily work it out but its just one more thing to do in a game which when played solo has enought to do. Perhaps under-line the range value instead?

In future I will use one of the alternative movement systems as plotted movement does not realy work solo (no surprise there then  :roll: ) but I wanted to do a vanilla test so just worked through it.

Finally the game would benefit from a decent play sheet the consolidated tables doesn't cut it I am afraid, at 5 pages it is way too big, with some stuff 'A.5 Ship systems' for example not require during a game. I will draw one up before my next game.

3

(25 replies, posted in Starmada)

My vote is for a Openoffice version of DryDock.

After that if all previous ships published on this Forum could be converted ... By tomorrow would be good lol

(The last one is a joke by the way!!)

4

(1 replies, posted in Starmada)

Hi,
Not a big deal but...
I am just setting up a small game to try the 'Unity' rules Imperials v Arcturians. I notice that the index for the names of ships in the rules index does not match the Ship sheets. The Arcturian Habusa in the index is the Thunderchild on the ship sheet! All three Arturian vessels are wrong but the Imperials are ok. I have not checked the rest.

5

(1 replies, posted in Starmada)

Hi guys,
I'm back (not that you missed me). Its only in hindsight I realised I had left myself. I found NOVA while clean and consistent it was not particularly emotionally satisfying. I want to feel that a Gatling Parser is somehow different from a Phaser Battery though the end result may well be the same. As it was the latest version I stuck with it but as I play lots of wargame periods not just SciFi Naval I only just realised I had not played Starmada for years. It was not a deliberate choice there was always something else to play. The new rules have kick started me again in as it appears to have 'returned' to its roots. I am going to actually play a game this weekend to see how they do.
The only worry is what will starmada replace in my playlist and will I notice this time?

Thanks Dan for sorting out my access. (It was so long since I posted last I had forgotten my id and the old email address was a dodo).

6

(30 replies, posted in Starmada)

May I second the PDF question please.

7

(6 replies, posted in Starmada)

Yerr the cardboard cutout syndrome. Its the process of writing it all down that somehow makes it so much clearer. I once worked on my own doing very technical things with computers, others were around just not techinical. If I got stuck I would pick a someone in the office and explain my problem, at some point I would stop having solved it. All you need is a cardboard cutout to explain it to big_smile .

8

(8 replies, posted in Starmada)

Back to the original question:
No. There appears to be no special construction rules, other than phaser 4s cannot be mounted on ships.

No. There are no special base rules for game play.

That's from building some bases in the shipyard and getting the same point counts and reading the rules in KA and RA.

On the wider question of 'are bases worthwhile?'.
In the real world the balance between fixed defences and ships changes over time until at the beginning of the 20th century when small fast torpedo armed boats pushed the larger ships away from the coast, from a close blockade to a distant blockade. This generally rendering shore naval gun emplacements redundant. To a degree they are returning with shore based missile batteries having such massive range they are making those vulnerable small boats less attractive.

So in Starmada as always it depends on your setting. big_smile

9

(2 replies, posted in Starmada)

You can buy PDFs from e23.

10

(12 replies, posted in Starmada)

PSYCO829 ,
True but hull has a direct if non-linear relationship to tonnage/SUs. Unless we of course decouple SU from Hull which is not a daft idea, thought it would made the gladiatorial  designers unmanageable smile the amount of hull is related to how 'big' it is.

11

(12 replies, posted in Starmada)

dan,
The comment was the result of a internal debate and possibly not clear. Basically NOVA has a lower 3 Hull limit. A 3 hull is 250 SU compared with 60 for a single hull sized ship. This hike to 3 hull makes the notational dreadnought 30 times bigger then the smaller climb from 14 Hull to 41. That's why I said it's worse.

12

(12 replies, posted in Starmada)

Dan,
Yes you are right, but the SU ratio is actually worse. A minimum ship of 3 hull has 250.27 SU a ship 30 times bigger a WW1, Destroyer to Dreadnought, would have 7508.10 SU giving a Hull of just over 41 hull. Now that's hull size creep!

The relationship between a 10 and 20 hull are 1197.15 to 2947.74 just under 3 times.

So my original point about the need for very small ships I think still stands.

13

(12 replies, posted in Starmada)

To be honest the 1 hull space is from SAE Dreadnought, I just tried to adapt it. You are right about PTs, as far as I can see in the games you play flotillas are PT boats.

On ship sizes in general, I think NOVA is most suited to a modern style of naval combat with task forces built around one or two capital ships and quite capable escorts, but struggles to cope with a more WW1 setting with squadrons of battle ships and flotillas of small attack/defense boats.

14

(12 replies, posted in Starmada)

Dear All,
Following the recent thread on ship classes I have been thinking (always dangerous smile) about how to 'model' small ships without the dreaded size creep. With WW1 destroyers some 30 times smaller than your average dreadnought and with NOVA having a practical lower limit of 3 hull you can end up with some pretty large battleships. Destroyers of that era tended to operate in flotillas so how could NOVA model them? I have two options the first is without changing any rules! (seems wrong somehow wink ) .

Inspired by the flotillas in SAE - DREADNOUGHT 

Tester Destroyer-flotilla class Destroyer (48)
ARMOR
HULL [_]:[_]:[_]
THRUST [8][6][4][3][2] WEAPONS [_][1][2][3][4]
ECM [1][1][1][0][0] SHIELDS
WEAPONS             ARCS RANGE ATTACK DICE -4 -6 -8 -10
3× Light Gun (Acr) [FX1] 1-2-3 3 2 2 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0
18× Torpedoes (Prc){Exp} [TT3][TT3] [TT3] 1-2-3 23 16 11 8 6 4 3 2 1 1 1 1

This represents a three ship flotilla you can easily increase the number of hulls to reflect more ships. The ECM was to reflect the difficultly in targeting smaller ships. One possible rule change (see I knew it wouldn't last big_smile ) is to only allow one hull hit per weapon battery fired. Obviously you can use different weapons and such but do people think it reasonable to portray a group of small ships this way? 

The second is to use shuttles as destroyers but to allow them fighter traits.

I'm throwing both ideas out there for discussion. Just remember that if your setting is closer to a modern wet navy setting then the destroyers above are more like fast attack vessels in some of the lesser navies of the world. And if you are one of those gladiatorial games the designs may not be uber effective, they are not meant to be.

15

(18 replies, posted in Starmada)

I was not suggesting battle ships should be bigger just thinking about comparisons. I once played a great per dreadnought game called Steam and Steel  which had 1 hull space = 1000 tons = 1 destroyer! It worked really well with destroyer flotillas sheltering behind the battle line then charging though to deliver a torpedo salvo.

It does show that a person needs to decide on the 'period' they are 'modeling'. Deploying a flotilla of Arleigh Burkes would be ridicules and having a displacement of 9000+ tons they are quite large at a third of the displacement of a WW1 dreadnought.   

So back to the original question what is a DD? big_smile

16

(18 replies, posted in Starmada)

A follower of Mahan then sorry :? .

A WW1 fleet would not have cruisers in its battle line. Aside for the light cruisers squadrons at Jutland used for scouting the frigates of the sailing era and the attached light cruisers at Jutland were for communications, repeating flag signals from the admiral to their squadron. DN/BB/BC and DDs would have done most of the fighting.

Prompted by your hull sizes Beowulf, I've just done a very rough comparison between German, British, and US WW1 fleets and the displacement of a 'battleship' was about 30 times that of a destroyer. A destroyer of 10/10 should  compare with a DN of 300/300!  Hmmmmm.

17

(18 replies, posted in Starmada)

Beowulf is a follower of Jeune École. But we already knew that wink .  (and no its not an insult look it up)

The issue of classes of ship in the real world are influenced by many factors which starmada does not address, such as operational considerations, politics and resources availability. The CRAT DRAT are a measure of combat effectiveness ans SU is some measurement of size but ships are also impacted by finances.   
Like the recent thread on fleet composition it all depends on the setting. If, as many do, you competitively design and test them in 'gladiatorial' combat then the 'correct' solution is very different from you a playing a campaign and you need a fleet were your dreadnought has to be in many places at the same time.

18

(18 replies, posted in Starmada)

Ah, words don't you love them. Ship classes change depending on setting. Take the Star Wars 'Star Destroyer' a dreadnought if ever I saw one :roll: . So really what they mean is up to you.

Historically the various terms have changed their meanings over time, with one era's Frigate is another era's Destroyer or in another a Cruiser. For example the term frigate had died out by the late 19th century and was reinvented post WW2 to describe a WW2 style destroyer while the term destroyer would more closely match a WW2 cruiser.

That being said I think there is some consensus, here is my take
Corvette - light and cheap escort vessel to guard convoys not expected to met enemy military vessels
Frigate - Heavier escort vessel rarely expected to be in a full battle (could also refer to a specialized escort vessel AAW or ASW for example)
Destroyer - Very heavy escort vessel  used to escort battle line ships in battle (a general escort vessel if frigates are specialists)
Cruiser (general) General workhorse (historically tended to operate far from home base. A sailing era frigate)
--Light Cruiser - lightly armed/armoured vessel (most often found in foreign stations)
--Heavy Cruiser - more heavily armed vessel (capable of being used as battle line substitute) 
Battle Cruiser - lightly armoured battleship
Battleship - the standard battle line ship able to both take and give out heavy damage 
Dreadnought - A more capable battleship (historically late era battleships)

Monitor- A heavily armed ship which has little or no maneuverability/speed. (Historically used for shore bombardment)

Of course everybody will have their own take on this and a perfectly reasonable justification for it.

I'm sure Dan would object to publishing the 'formula', after all he (rightly) wants to sell more books!

However all is not lost, I have tried to work out how Dan did the actual conversion (I want all those variant which will never see the light of day in Nova). The conversion is not from Star Fleet Battles but Federation Commander and if you look at the ADB site http://www.starfleetgames.com/federatio … e/sc.shtml they have loads of FC SSDs online so you can work the 'formula' out yourself. It is pretty straight forward but there are some 'adjustments' so you need to be creative.There is also an article on the site to conversion from SFB to FC. So you can work out at least an approximation
of a planet Killer.

Alternatively the ADB site has the old admiralty stats for a planet killer and you could convert that using the Nova conversion rules.

BeowulfJB,
I agree with the view that its not the game that's broken but the way you play the game. Starmada is a construction kit to build fleets which match some form of background whether created by you or someone else. I know from other posts that competitive design is practiced by many others but that's not the strength of the game system.

21

(1 replies, posted in Starmada)

I tried to do a straight conversion from KA/RA SAE to SFO but the ships came out too bland for me sad  So I re-imagined them, for instance I made all Federation ships pretty average but with good command ratings and Klingon Hulls I made Agile. You can see some of my efforts in the SFO files section under Triassic Sector.

I've not done too much more with this as I am playing around with the Nova edition at the moment.

22

(0 replies, posted in Starmada)

I've been trying to workout how the hull size is calculated in the new Klingon and Romulan Armada books. Why? because I want to use those ships which will not get into the Armada books any time soon (if ever) like the earlier stuff and the variants. Most of the values seen to be a straight numeric conversion and I found the spreadsheet for calculation thrust.

I know the hull is not calculated as per nova build rules and have been using the ship descriptions on the ADB site for Federation Commander Squadron level. Just counting the Hull boxes gives a very close approximation but some times its high and some times low. Adding any box not used for anything else ie Aux boxes and then making an adjustment seems to make the results more varied.

Any clues would be appreciated.

23

(6 replies, posted in Starmada)

AAhhggg...  :evil: After OnG saying the War Eagle was good I went over my calcs once again and found my mistake. The Skyhawk is still way out but the rest are back within acceptable error. I can only put it down to calculator fatigue.

Perhaps I should play the game instead for a while big_smile.

Incidentally The Skyhawk is the only Romulan which does not have Fragile systems is that correct?
If you are going to provide corrections you might want to look at these

Kingon FD7 [wrong Disruptor overload Range]
Gorn JAWS DD [wrong Plasma G Attack dice]
Federation BISMARCK [Photon Overload is (Dfs/Dx3) should be (Dx3/Slw)]
Federation KIROV [Photon Torps are Dfs in both normal and overload]
Federation NEW JERSEY, which has dodgy Photon Torps [has 6 standard mounts, should theses be Dfs?]
Federation LEXINGTON [Photon Torps are Dfs in both normal and overload]
Kzinti DEATHDEALER [Disruptor overload traits are missing should be (Dx2/Slw)]

Now to go and set up a game and roll a few dice smile

24

(6 replies, posted in Starmada)

Thanks, that fixes most of the errors smile .

However (sorry about this :roll: ) but there are a few issues.
1. The Gorn Jaws DD seems to have a typo in the Plasma G its different from all the other Plasma Gs
2. Assuming rounding errors account for most of the differences and ignoring less than 3% of points difference the following Romulan ships seem to vary more significantly from my calculations;

Type; My calc vs Book
War Eagle; 327 vs 306 = 6%
Battle Hawk; 251 vs 267 = 6%
King Eagle; 386 vs 402 = 4%
KR; 362 vs 380 = 5%
Skyhawk; 328 vs 348 = 6%

Most of the other ships including other Romulans are with in 3% so I don't think its a rounding error. The War eagle is the only one where I calculate a higher score than the book so is a further anomaly.

25

(6 replies, posted in Starmada)

Dan,
I'm trying to resolve the rounding error on the Shipyard. To this end I'm inputting each ship from KA-n and RA-n (sad I know). There appears to be an error with the Plasma F. While the plasma-S is coming out 1 attack dice too low (probably a rounding error), two plasma-F attack dice comes out at 4 not 7 dice as in the book. The ships seem to be pointed for 7 dice. The problem is on all plasma-F armed ships.
I think the ship displays are in error as two plasma-F are only 1 dice weaker than two plasma S!

I'm working through the books and have found a few ships which seem to have pointing errors which are larger than can be accounted for by rounding. I will collect them together and post them when I have finished all the ships.