Topic: Getting (Back) Into Starmada/Design & Art Query

So, after fiddling with High Guard, Power Projection, Full Thrust, Silent Death and Slag!, I find myself again at Starmada.

Which is odd, as I'm normally allergic to hexes.  big_smile  (Okay, SD and Slag! are exceptions...)

I've got AE and ISS print versions, and I'll probably end up getting the PDF versions of H&C, IRN and DRN (unless there's another way to get the Starmada-useful rules from them?).

I have to say, the ship design system was one of those things that pulled me back in. There's a little insane part of me that wants to try to stat up a Tigress or Plankwell...

Game Design Question: Why the 'no opposing ships in the same hex' rule? It seems...funky. (ETA: Not that it's bad, it's just something that struck me on today's read-through as odd - unless it's to keep the minis from getting tangled up?)

Art Question: What software was used to make the ships for the latest versions? My oldest kid wants to dabble in such things, which I encourage, but we're not sure where to start.

Noah

Re: Getting (Back) Into Starmada/Design & Art Query

NVDoyle wrote:

So, after fiddling with High Guard, Power Projection, Full Thrust, Silent Death and Slag!, I find myself again at Starmada.

Welcome back! smile

I've got AE and ISS print versions, and I'll probably end up getting the PDF versions of H&C, IRN and DRN (unless there's another way to get the Starmada-useful rules from them?).

I'm certainly not going to tell you NOT to buy them ... but I do plan to release a rules-only book in the near future that compiles all the stuff from the first four supplements.

I have to say, the ship design system was one of those things that pulled me back in. There's a little insane part of me that wants to try to stat up a Tigress or Plankwell...

I don't get the reference.

Game Design Question: Why the 'no opposing ships in the same hex' rule? It seems...funky. (ETA: Not that it's bad, it's just something that struck me on today's read-through as odd - unless it's to keep the minis from getting tangled up?)

Yes, there's the whole minis getting tangled issue -- there's also the firing arcs issue. When two ships are in the same hex, what arcs can be brought to bear?

Art Question: What software was used to make the ships for the latest versions? My oldest kid wants to dabble in such things, which I encourage, but we're not sure where to start.

DOGA. Mike Dugan can tell you lots more about the art process.

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: Getting (Back) Into Starmada/Design & Art Query

cricket wrote:
NVDoyle wrote:

So, after fiddling with High Guard, Power Projection, Full Thrust, Silent Death and Slag!, I find myself again at Starmada.

Welcome back! smile

It's good to be back. I admit to a bit of intimidation, moving from Full Thrust to Starmada, but I'm in an algebra class anyway.  wink  (Interestingly, it's given me a whole new appreciation of why some of the numbers are they way they are.) And while I have a nostalgic adoration for High Guard, Starmada's design process is cleaner.

cricket wrote:
NVDoyle wrote:

I've got AE and ISS print versions, and I'll probably end up getting the PDF versions of H&C, IRN and DRN (unless there's another way to get the Starmada-useful rules from them?).

I'm certainly not going to tell you NOT to buy them ... but I do plan to release a rules-only book in the near future that compiles all the stuff from the first four supplements.

Are you thinking near-future 'this summer', or near-future 'maybe 2009'? That's something I'd buy print-and-PDF of in a heartbeat!

cricket wrote:
NVDoyle wrote:

I have to say, the ship design system was one of those things that pulled me back in. There's a little insane part of me that wants to try to stat up a Tigress or Plankwell...

I don't get the reference.

Tigress and Plankwell are some of the larger ships in the Traveller setting (500K and 200K dtons, respectively). Hundreds of missile racks, huge spinal weapons, lots and lots of fighters, missile defenses (sand and repulsor), etc. Power Projection's SSD for Tigress is a half-sheet wall of missile battery icons.

(Hmm...a one-arc super-mega-death beam, some point-defense-type specials, and more carrier capacity than is sane...this might be easier than I thought...)

cricket wrote:
NVDoyle wrote:

Game Design Question: Why the 'no opposing ships in the same hex' rule? It seems...funky. (ETA: Not that it's bad, it's just something that struck me on today's read-through as odd - unless it's to keep the minis from getting tangled up?)

Yes, there's the whole minis getting tangled issue -- there's also the firing arcs issue. When two ships are in the same hex, what arcs can be brought to bear?

Well, that shouldn't be too hard, one ship came in from one direction, another from another, keep that orientation and...uh...hmm. I'll have to get back to you on that one...

cricket wrote:
NVDoyle wrote:

Art Question: What software was used to make the ships for the latest versions? My oldest kid wants to dabble in such things, which I encourage, but we're not sure where to start.

DOGA. Mike Dugan can tell you lots more about the art process.

Thanks! I'll have to hunt that one up, and see if we can pick Mr. Dugan's brain for any starter tips.

Re: Getting (Back) Into Starmada/Design & Art Query

NVDoyle wrote:

Are you thinking near-future 'this summer', or near-future 'maybe 2009'? That's something I'd buy print-and-PDF of in a heartbeat!

I'm thinking "next month".

Tigress and Plankwell are some of the larger ships in the Traveller setting (500K and 200K dtons, respectively). Hundreds of missile racks, huge spinal weapons, lots and lots of fighters, missile defenses (sand and repulsor), etc. Power Projection's SSD for Tigress is a half-sheet wall of missile battery icons.

(Hmm...a one-arc super-mega-death beam, some point-defense-type specials, and more carrier capacity than is sane...this might be easier than I thought...)

Oh. I think my geek cred just took a hit. wink

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: Getting (Back) Into Starmada/Design & Art Query

Hello and welcome back to Starmada.
My friends and I were Full Thruse devotees from 1999 to 2004.  I found a copy of the Starmada rules at my friend Gaming Glen's store.  Since we all began playing Starmada, my Full Thrust stuff remains stored and unused. 
If the hexes really bother you, you can use the Full Thrust rules and treat the engine rating of a ship as its thrust ability using human type of engines:  half of thrust points can be used to turn. 
But I enjoy using hexes because it makes the combat phase go quicker.   You can count hexes for range instead of measuring to this ship, measuring to that ship, measuring to another ship, measuring to...  :? .   
In Full Thrust firing took longer and sometimes became tedious.  Also, with hexes, it is much easier to determine which ships are in a weapon's arc and which are not.  All in all, using hexes allows the game to go more quickly and more smoothly. 8-)

Re: Getting (Back) Into Starmada/Design & Art Query

Yep DOGA:

http://www.doga.co.jp/english/

i just Googled it, and I've got some links to follow up on now.  big_smile

I started with L3, but there are two 'lesser' incarnations if you want less to mess with while learning it. The biggest difference is the texturing ability (from what I've heard), but I've actually not worked with L1 or L2. If you get 'into it', I have at least one Yahoo group you might look into. Bear in mind that getting into DOGA modelling is addictive, but getting the models into OTHER 3D programs can be a bit of a leap. You are also limited in the parts available, until you learn to make your own. There are a few parts groups available online, learning how to use Metaseqouia (sp?) helps.

Download it, install it, play with it  big_smile

Re: Getting (Back) Into Starmada/Design & Art Query

Don't feel bad Dan, I've got a crapload of Traveller stuff, and didn't get the reference either.

Re: Getting (Back) Into Starmada/Design & Art Query

Re: two ships in the same hex...

I can think of lots of fun solutions, from "all weapons can fire" (since you pass one another, going from one facing prior to the turn, to the opposite afterwards)...to random die rolls...to "use the arcs from the previous turn"...Or zoom in on the action: Mark out a "mega hex" (a hex and the 6 surrounding hexes) to represent the contested area, and park each ship on the side that it entered.

And miniatures needn't get in the way--just throw down a marker to represent the hex where they meet.

Re: Getting (Back) Into Starmada/Design & Art Query

thedugan wrote:

Don't feel bad Dan, I've got a crapload of Traveller stuff, and didn't get the reference either.

tsk tsk.. both of you have to give up some geek AND gearhead cred.     lol

I knew those terms and can still recall their artwork in their first publication (which I have sitting in a box behind me).   :geek:

Re: Getting (Back) Into Starmada/Design & Art Query

I've never claimed to be a gearhead - technophile, perhaps....

I'll grant you the debit of Geek Creds if you can do up some 3d Ships suffiicently cool to work as background pix in a MJ12 pub.

big_smile

Re: Getting (Back) Into Starmada/Design & Art Query

cricket wrote:
NVDoyle wrote:

Are you thinking near-future 'this summer', or near-future 'maybe 2009'? That's something I'd buy print-and-PDF of in a heartbeat!

I'm thinking "next month".

*slap* PayPal on the barrelhead, sir!  big_smile Just tell me where and when.

As for the geek/gearhead cred hits, no-one should worry. I'm an enormous Traveller geek, and was quite recently reading 'Fighting Ships' and High Guard, so those beasties were well in mind.

Re: Getting (Back) Into Starmada/Design & Art Query

Hmm...

Might be worth saving up for (as well as the VBAM 2.0 thing) Should really buy Dreadnoughts and Iron Stars supplements but my resources are still tight. How much would the print version be?

Re: Getting (Back) Into Starmada/Design & Art Query

GamingGlen wrote:
thedugan wrote:

Don't feel bad Dan, I've got a crapload of Traveller stuff, and didn't get the reference either.

tsk tsk.. both of you have to give up some geek AND gearhead cred.     lol

I knew those terms and can still recall their artwork in their first publication (which I have sitting in a box behind me).   :geek:

Then I have to too. Haven't got any Traveller stuff, partly because of cashflow problems (too much out, not enough in, isn't it always the case?) but mainly because I think it was released around the early 90s...?

Re: Getting (Back) Into Starmada/Design & Art Query

murtalianconfederacy wrote:

Then I have to too. Haven't got any Traveller stuff, partly because of cashflow problems (too much out, not enough in, isn't it always the case?) but mainly because I think it was released around the early 90s...?

Tigress and Plankwell first appeared (if memory and research serves) in Traveller Supplement 9-Fighting Ships, first published in 1981. Traveller itself was first published in 1977. For early 1990's, you're probably thinking of Traveller: New Era, the second big rules revision/story arc jump, even less welcomed than the first.

Re: Getting (Back) Into Starmada/Design & Art Query

Ah, okay, I was a bit worried about putting the date of the release of Traveller too far back. Still, my point about it being released a while back (before I was born) is valid...:)

Re: Getting (Back) Into Starmada/Design & Art Query

I agree that I was a FUll Thrust nut, but Starmada has won me over.  Mainly, I love the amount of design options for weaponry one can come up with.  I also agree with the hexes thing.  It's so much easier to determine how far away someone is and which arc they are in that it's very nice when playing!

The only major downside is teaching people to unlearn the movemenbt system from their past...
-Bren