Topic: Weapon and Ship Traits

A couple of weapon and ship traits I'd be interested to see:

The first two weapon traits would be best used with Dual-Mode weapons and without the Damage Control option:
- Burnout: After firing, the weapon is considered damaged. There could be varying degrees of this making it more or less likely to blow. This trait would be able to represent in dual-mode disabling the safety protocols, or overcharging the capacitors. As a non-dual mode weapon, it could represent either experimental tech, a race whose equipment is known for unreliability or for pirates who salvaged the damaged weapon and jury-rigged it into their systems.

- Similar to burnout only the level of damage is more catastrophic. Any ones rolled when firing the weapon are rolled IMP and DMG against the ship firing it. Like #1 only to the nth degree.

The last one I was thinking of, and I'll probably eventually think of more:

- A weapon or ship trait that destroys the ship when used. Either as a cannon that the sheer shock value of firing it rips the firing vessel apart, (Again, similar to traits above) or - more to what I was thinking - something along the line of the Shofixti Glory Device that you can detonate when the ship is heavily damaged to try and take an enemy ship out with you.

Re: Weapon and Ship Traits

Good thoughts. A weapon that can be overcharged and possibly destroy itself when used and a self-destruct device could both be easily worked into the game, I think.

Re: Weapon and Ship Traits

The self destruct weapon I'd hesitate with, since people could easily abuse the rule with many small ships, each with the "kill yourself" trait on their only weapon.

I like the burnout idea, pricing it seems like it would be a pain though.

Re: Weapon and Ship Traits

PSYCO829 wrote:

The self destruct weapon I'd hesitate with, since people could easily abuse the rule with many small ships, each with the "kill yourself" trait on their only weapon.

I like the burnout idea, pricing it seems like it would be a pain though.

Use explosion rules, so little ships are only weak one shot weapons that cost VPs to employ. There are lots of examples in various sci-fi settings of purpose built suicide ships (usually employed by the bad guys, I can remember specific examples in the Lost Fleet and Starfire series of books) with great big bombs in them. If you use a great big ship with no other capability than to explode near the enemy you won't loose very many VPs, relative to the possible damage, but the chances of the ship surviving without points dumped into defenses or weapons are much lower.
Erik

Re: Weapon and Ship Traits

The use of fire ships suggest that a weapon that destroyed the ship, if properly balanced, could be interesting.

Personally, I'd like to see something that allowed a ship to ram another in a final "death or glory" bid.

While thinking about it, I'd quite like to see something that allowed different crew qualities.

And even more off the original point, what about micro jumps such as get in some of Elizabeth Moon's military SF?  Would be an utterly different game with timing and manouever much more critical.

Re: Weapon and Ship Traits

Blacklancer99 wrote:

Use explosion rules, so little ships are only weak one shot weapons that cost VPs to employ. There are lots of examples in various sci-fi settings of purpose built suicide ships (usually employed by the bad guys, I can remember specific examples in the Lost Fleet and Starfire series of books) with great big bombs in them. If you use a great big ship with no other capability than to explode near the enemy you won't loose very many VPs, relative to the possible damage, but the chances of the ship surviving without points dumped into defenses or weapons are much lower.
Erik

Another example are fire ships too. I almost forgot about that idea. Heh.

That's also a thought, but then what if you don't want explosions from *all* ships? That's why I consider the explody or unstable trait.

Re: Weapon and Ship Traits

Alex Knight wrote:
Blacklancer99 wrote:

Use explosion rules, so little ships are only weak one shot weapons that cost VPs to employ. There are lots of examples in various sci-fi settings of purpose built suicide ships (usually employed by the bad guys, I can remember specific examples in the Lost Fleet and Starfire series of books) with great big bombs in them. If you use a great big ship with no other capability than to explode near the enemy you won't loose very many VPs, relative to the possible damage, but the chances of the ship surviving without points dumped into defenses or weapons are much lower.
Erik

Another example are fire ships too. I almost forgot about that idea. Heh.

That's also a thought, but then what if you don't want explosions from *all* ships? That's why I consider the explody or unstable trait.

I probably should have said that I was in favor of the trait (I like "Explody" Hehe), and I was just recommending using the standard explosion mechanic already in place to resolve the attack. Maybe Ramming could be accomplished with a house rule where if you can maneuver into the same hex as another ship, roll an attack (5+ maybe?) and if it hits ignore shields and do damage based on hull, just to that one target. Of course, the ramming ship is destroyed.
Personally, I am usually in favor of anything that can be added to the game to simulate something done in sci-fi literature or shows/movies  smile
Erik

Re: Weapon and Ship Traits

There's been a couple series, In Death Ground being the most prevalent in mind, that use suicide ships packed with anti-matter or such nastiness.  If one were to want to simulate something on that magnitude, I would think it would "fire"; exploding in its hex and perform as an area effect, catastrophic traited weapon. The downside is that such ships do not have anything else in terms of firepower. Something more to chew on.

Re: Weapon and Ship Traits

"Maybe Ramming could be accomplished with a house rule where if you can maneuver into the same hex as another ship, roll an attack (5+ maybe?)"

The idea I would go with is both ships captains roll a d6, add their current MP and  subtract their current speed. Winner decides if the ram occurs or not (ties go to the defender).  Once hit, each ship does current hull as IMP 1 against the shields; any that make it through the shields, are DMG 1 to the other ship.

-Bren

Re: Weapon and Ship Traits

jygro wrote:

"Maybe Ramming could be accomplished with a house rule where if you can maneuver into the same hex as another ship, roll an attack (5+ maybe?)"

The idea I would go with is both ships captains roll a d6, add their current MP and  subtract their current speed. Winner decides if the ram occurs or not (ties go to the defender).  Once hit, each ship does current hull as IMP 1 against the shields; any that make it through the shields, are DMG 1 to the other ship.

-Bren


Like this idea - but would ignore shields and go straight for dmg, on rationalisation that its going to be really hard to manouever into the square of the other ship anyway, and shields or sundry defences are not set up to cope with a ship sized item hitting them.  You could declare and resolve this at the end of the move phase - and apply effects at once.

Re: Weapon and Ship Traits

The system is going to have to come up with something along the lines of the proposed "Burnout" rule I think when Klingon Armada gets to the Hydrans with their suicide overload fusion beams.

Re: Weapon and Ship Traits

I recall using an adapted version of Battlefleet Gothic's ramming rules once...  don't remember the details, though.

Regarding Fire Ships: Shipyard allows non-multiple-of-three ranges.  Hence, implementation:

Type: Fire Ship (173)
Hull: 3 2 1
Engines: [TL0] 7 5 3                           
Shields: [TL0] 2 2 1                           
Weapons : 1:[V], 2:[V], 3:[], 4:[], 5:[], 6:[]
Weapons
Battery V:   Suicide Charge  TL0,  -/1/-,  2/2+/2/3
Area Effect, Catastrophic, Ignores Shields,   Ammo:(1)
[ABCDEF]

Would probably be nasty with Cloaking...

Ramming could similarly be handled with a range 1 weapon (potentially with a "may damage user when fired" trait).

Governorflax wrote:

And even more off the original point, what about micro jumps such as get in some of Elizabeth Moon's military SF? Would be an utterly different game with timing and manouever much more critical.

That's an awesome idea!  Not sure how you'd implement it, though...

Re: Weapon and Ship Traits

Nomad wrote:
Governorflax wrote:

And even more off the original point, what about micro jumps such as get in some of Elizabeth Moon's military SF? Would be an utterly different game with timing and manouever much more critical.

That's an awesome idea!  Not sure how you'd implement it, though...

Take a look at Battleshift here:

http://web.archive.org/web/20071113031207/http://www.thanesgames.com/battleshift/bsmain.htm

One of the few games I've seen that incorporated tactical hyperjumps right from word one, and fairly good at it too.  Easy to crib ideas for Starmada, especially since you're plotting movement anyway.  Thane's site is gone but the archives still work, albeit slowly.

Re: Weapon and Ship Traits

starbreaker wrote:

Take a look at Battleshift here:

http://web.archive.org/web/20071113031207/http://www.thanesgames.com/battleshift/bsmain.htm

One of the few games I've seen that incorporated tactical hyperjumps right from word one, and fairly good at it too.  Easy to crib ideas for Starmada, especially since you're plotting movement anyway.  Thane's site is gone but the archives still work, albeit slowly.

Like the idea there!  With a hex system you could implement it more accurately.  Use of micro jump would need special equipment (perhaps 10% SU and a 1.5 modifier to 0CR), and could work something like this:
As a movement order takes up no thrust, and jumps after normal movement.  Will appear at start of next movement phase (so is absent from the fighter and firing phase and end phase after movement) a specified number of hexes ahead from its last facing (so would have to mark the jump point and facing) and with the same speed as when it jumps (speed and facing same) at which point thrust is available to move normally with.  Equipment cannot be used is same turn as any jump in:  So could move and jump out turn 1, jump in turn 2, move and fire, move and jump out turn 3.

Incidentally, should put the end to maxing out weapon ranges with narrow arcs and sitting waiting for the enemy.

Re: Weapon and Ship Traits

Good stuff....  went and read Battleshift, and may have to 'borrow' some of their suppression and squadroning rules as well.

Re: Weapon and Ship Traits

Yes, lots of good ideas there.  A sadly underappreciated set of rules, and with Thane having closed up shop, it seems unlikely to get further material or exposure.  Shame, really.

Re: Weapon and Ship Traits

Thane had a game called Xenocide, still some thing on the net about it, but the game's gone.

What happened with Thane's Games? Anyone know?

Re: Weapon and Ship Traits

Decided to get out of the business.  Sold Armies of Arcana away and moved on.  Haven't heard anything since the sell...

-B