• Registered: 2008-12-22
  • Posts: 654

Topic: Just thinking...pointing question

I was thinking that mines in AE are  Ammo-based, but how difficult would be to "point" a weapon or system that created minefields without using ammo? There are some examples in literature and games of area-denial systems that basically operate like AE minefields, but without the ammo requirement limitation. Say you have a weapon that places a size 1 minefield on the board with a successful hit on a hex. It would be interesting I think, as long as it was pointed appropriately, but I was wondering with others thought.
Cheers,
Erik

  • Registered: 2007-12-17
  • Posts: 331

Re: Just thinking...pointing question

Mines take up space. It would make most sense if it was a weapon with ammo (that fired in the regular phase). I have thought about this before, too. I think it would be a welcome addition. (The U.S. has minelets deliverable from artillery shells and aircraft.)

However, most Starmada games don't last that many turns, so with the right points, I agree, you wouldn't need to have ammunition limits on it.  8-)

  • Registered: 2008-12-22
  • Posts: 654

Re: Just thinking...pointing question

MadSeason wrote:

Mines take up space. It would make most sense if it was a weapon with ammo (that fired in the regular phase). I have thought about this before, too. I think it would be a welcome addition. (The U.S. has minelets deliverable from artillery shells and aircraft.)

However, most Starmada games don't last that many turns, so with the right points, I agree, you wouldn't need to have ammunition limits on it.  8-)

I wasn't specifically speaking about mines be delivered by a weapon, per se, but rather a system that would create an area of space that if you cross, it could potentially damage your ship. Perhaps you have a weapon that destabilizes space itself, creates a multitude of teeny singularities, creates a field of charged particles with a lifespan to cover the length of a game, a, cloud of dark matter, a glowing web-like ball of  energy,  whatever. The kind of thing that would only require energy to create, and not be ammo dependent. In addition, if you mounted several of these types of weapons on a hull, you could plant several fields (I still envision a limit of size 1) in a turn.  I think it is the kind of thing that would generally be used by super high tech settings or races because I think that it would be too expensive for most lower tech settings/races.
Cheers,
Erik
PS I pretty much fully expect Cricket to eventually chime in with a perfectly reasonable answer as to why such a thing wouldn't be feasible. Yet I must ask...it is what I do...it is who I am... lol

  • Registered: 2009-08-03
  • Posts: 245

Re: Just thinking...pointing question

This sounds like a neat idea...  I had recently been wondering how to price mines with maximum deployment ranges greater than (or less than) 6 hexes.

  • Registered: 2007-12-17
  • Posts: 331

Re: Just thinking...pointing question

Lancer, do you mean that these "fields" would remain after being fired? If so, I see that as a problem. Mines can be destroyed, so it is less of a problem...

  • Registered: 2008-12-22
  • Posts: 654

Re: Just thinking...pointing question

MadSeason wrote:

Lancer, do you mean that these "fields" would remain after being fired? If so, I see that as a problem. Mines can be destroyed, so it is less of a problem...

I'm saying that they would remain on the board, yes. However, they could still be "swept" and in every way would be treated as mines. Hey, who's to say that your pulse cannon can't disrupt my spacial distortion, right?

Being treated as a weapon though would allow them to be fired in combat, and could have variable range, though I would lock the IMP and DMG.

  • Registered: 2007-12-17
  • Posts: 331

Re: Just thinking...pointing question

You're selling me...  wink

  • Registered: 2010-02-16
  • Posts: 346

Re: Just thinking...pointing question

There are two such weapons in Star Fleet Battles. Cricket may easily ignore the Chloridian Space Coagulation Cloud, but he will sooner or later have to find an acceptable way to simulate the Tholian Web in Starmada. It will surely be necessary if Tholian Armada is ever to be published. Since Starmada does not do Energy Allocation, some sort of linear minefield is the only way that I can presently think of to simulate a Tholian Web. By the method that seems to have been employed to determine Range Conversions in Klingon Armada, the maximum length of a strand of Tholian Web would be 6 or 7 of whatever movement unit you care to use. It would not be unacceptable to have an Ammunition limit as Tholian ships were limited in how much Web they could sucessfully tend. If I remember correctly, the Damage caused by a Tholian Web depended solely on the velocity of the ship trying to cross it (with the Tholians being immune). I think that the cost (as compared to a normal mine) would have to be somewhat arbitrary, as you could not predict the Damage caused in advance.

  • Registered: 2008-12-22
  • Posts: 654

Re: Just thinking...pointing question

JohnRobert wrote:

There are two such weapons in Star Fleet Battles. Cricket may easily ignore the Chloridian Space Coagulation Cloud, but he will sooner or later have to find an acceptable way to simulate the Tholian Web in Starmada. It will surely be necessary if Tholian Armada is ever to be published. Since Starmada does not do Energy Allocation, some sort of linear minefield is the only way that I can presently think of to simulate a Tholian Web. By the method that seems to have been employed to determine Range Conversions in Klingon Armada, the maximum length of a strand of Tholian Web would be 6 or 7 of whatever movement unit you care to use. It would not be unacceptable to have an Ammunition limit as Tholian ships were limited in how much Web they could sucessfully tend. If I remember correctly, the Damage caused by a Tholian Web depended solely on the velocity of the ship trying to cross it (with the Tholians being immune). I think that the cost (as compared to a normal mine) would have to be somewhat arbitrary, as you could not predict the Damage caused in advance.

Tholian webs were one of the prime examples of what I was thinking, but they aren't the only ones I've come across.  I think that for the purposes of a game like Starmada there can be an abstraction made for the purposes of damage to remove the "need for speeed" figuring. I was actually quite a bit surprised that KA came with Tholian ships that didn't have a web-cast/spinner mechanic (it is, like, well, THEIR THING!). I chalked that up to the fact that Dan either ran out of time or space to do so, or possibly he just ran up against the fact that he couldn't find a suitable mechanic.
Of course, one never knows what might be lurking just over the horizon, and maybe he does have something that he's holding back until the right time.
Erik