Topic: Nova: Weapon Display

Why do the weapon displays start at a really high value when all of the weapons have a bank modifier?  Take this weapon I designed using one of the spreadsheet, but I've seen something similar on the ones in the book:

Fusion Cannon (Acr) [FF4][FP5][FS5][AS6][AP6][AA4]
72    51    36    25    18    13    9    6    5    3    2    2

There's a load of wasted columns at the start and the end doesn't go down to 0.  Really it should start at 18 and reduce all the mods by 4?  I presume you'd have to manually modify these or is this something the spreadsheets could do?

Re: Nova: Weapon Display

diddimus wrote:

Why do the weapon displays start at a really high value when all of the weapons have a bank modifier?  Take this weapon I designed using one of the spreadsheet, but I've seen something similar on the ones in the book:
Fusion Cannon (Acr) [FF4][FP5][FS5][AS6][AP6][AA4]
72    51    36    25    18    13    9    6    5    3    2    2
There's a load of wasted columns at the start and the end doesn't go down to 0.  Really it should start at 18 and reduce all the mods by 4?  I presume you'd have to manually modify these or is this something the spreadsheets could do?

There used to be an option in the drydock, that I believe Dan is going to bring back once players are more familiar with the rules and ship design, that basically zeroed out the mods and reduced the dice accordingly.

Using your example from above, using the reduced mod effect the Fusion Cannon would look more like the following:
[FF][FP1][FS1][AS2][AP2][AA]
18    13    9    6    5    3    2    2    1    1    1    0

Kevin

Re: Nova: Weapon Display

Yes that's exactly what I think is needed.  Glad to see it's already in hand smile

Re: Nova: Weapon Display

diddimus wrote:

Yes that's exactly what I think is needed.  Glad to see it's already in hand smile

Then again you could have reduced the number of weapons!
Increasing the BAS?

Re: Nova: Weapon Display

diddimus wrote:

Why do the weapon displays start at a really high value when all of the weapons have a bank modifier?

Because the number in the first column represents the total firepower of all weapons in the battery.

It is possible to adjust the display as Kevin suggests, but it's not something I expect to do with "official" designs.

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: Nova: Weapon Display

If you do this, you might have a problem if you end up with a +1 mod to the attack. 
With a bonus, you move to the left and double the listed dice, moving left twice if its a +2.  If you eliminate the leftmost column(s), are you gonna be able to remember what amount to roll if you have a bonus, or are you willing to do the math in the middle of a game to calculate it?

Re: Nova: Weapon Display

koyodude wrote:

If you do this, you might have a problem if you end up with a +1 mod to the attack. 
With a bonus, you move to the left and double the listed dice, moving left twice if its a +2.  If you eliminate the leftmost column(s), are you gonna be able to remember what amount to roll if you have a bonus, or are you willing to do the math in the middle of a game to calculate it?

I don't think there's a case where you'll ever have this problem.
All of your weapon arc mods can actually be distilled down to where the lowest arc mod is zero, with all of the other arcs adjusted from there. As long as the die columns are reduced accordingly, the math works with no in game adjustments necessary.
In this particular example, one die would be gained by simplifying the arcs, and only when a +1 fire is achieved.

Note his fourth column, and my second column.

By reducing the columns, when the second column is doubled, it's giving 26 dice for an attack, versus 25 when not reducing the arc mods.
Our group has chosen to go with the lowest arc mods possible, as it reduces the number of modifiers in the game.
Where I'm guessing you'll find most of this happening is in the conversions, which a lot of times will yield arc mods of three or greater.
With original designs using this edition, it's possible (and in our group desireable), to keep things as streamlined as possible.
Kevin

Re: Nova: Weapon Display

I don't see what all the fuss is about,  just because you might be able to who is seriously going to have an extreme weapon with a total firepower of 72 attack dice.
Oh my! It is so Exhausting having to count a few more columns over to the right. smile
Excuse me. Just have to lay down for a minute. You young-uns should'nt have a problem.
The system is simple, my eight year old niece can use it.

I am not saying don't do it. Just that it seems like going to more bother for nothing. Just my 2d worth.

Paul

Re: Nova: Weapon Display

OldnGrey wrote:

I don't see what all the fuss is about,  just because you might be able to who is seriously going to have an extreme weapon with a total firepower of 72 attack dice.
Paul

Someone who really, really likes Star Destroyers?

Re: Nova: Weapon Display

What I do on my SSD is color-code the arc modifiers that are available on a bank, so you never have to count over to figure out where you're starting from on a given arc.

Played my first game with it last night, and it worked quite well.

<IMG src="http://i.imgur.com/nlOVj.png">http://i.imgur.com/nlOVj.png</IMG>

Re: Nova: Weapon Display

OldnGrey wrote:

I don't see what all the fuss is about,  just because you might be able to who is seriously going to have an extreme weapon with a total firepower of 72 attack dice.
Oh my! It is so Exhausting having to count a few more columns over to the right. smile
Excuse me. Just have to lay down for a minute. You young-uns should'nt have a problem.
The system is simple, my eight year old niece can use it.

I am not saying don't do it. Just that it seems like going to more bother for nothing. Just my 2d worth.

Paul

The reason is not that you have to count more columns (although it's pointless), the reason is that the chart in my example doesn't go down to 0 or even 1, so what happens when you go off the chart due to the built in high mods.

Re: Nova: Weapon Display

The reason is not that you have to count more columns (although it's pointless), the reason is that the chart in my example doesn't go down to 0 or even 1, so what happens when you go off the chart due to the built in high mods.

On the other hand what happens when you go off the chart to the left?

Re: Nova: Weapon Display

Ozymandias wrote:

The reason is not that you have to count more columns (although it's pointless), the reason is that the chart in my example doesn't go down to 0 or even 1, so what happens when you go off the chart due to the built in high mods.

On the other hand what happens when you go off the chart to the left?

You do what it say in the book for +1 mods and column shift right and double the number (or double the first number in the case of a +2).  Or have I misread this?

Re: Nova: Weapon Display

diddimus wrote:

The reason is not that you have to count more columns (although it's pointless), the reason is that the chart in my example doesn't go down to 0 or even 1, so what happens when you go off the chart due to the built in high mods.

If you have a starting number of 32 or more attack dice, you'll need to divide the battery into two or more "sub-batteries".

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: Nova: Weapon Display

cricket wrote:
diddimus wrote:

The reason is not that you have to count more columns (although it's pointless), the reason is that the chart in my example doesn't go down to 0 or even 1, so what happens when you go off the chart due to the built in high mods.

If you have a starting number of 32 or more attack dice, you'll need to divide the battery into two or more "sub-batteries".

If you have a starting number of 32 attack dice...
... you're rolling too many friggin' dice. wink

Re: Nova: Weapon Display

underling wrote:

If you have a starting number of 32 attack dice...
... you're rolling too many friggin' dice. wink

True. I doubt you'll have a single 32-die weapon -- although now I've said that, I wouldn't put it past someone to try and design one. smile

However, I can understand a ship with LOTS of smaller weapons that end up totaling 32 or more dice.

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: Nova: Weapon Display

cricket wrote:
underling wrote:

If you have a starting number of 32 attack dice...
... you're rolling too many friggin' dice. wink

True. I doubt you'll have a single 32-die weapon -- although now I've said that, I wouldn't put it past someone to try and design one. smile

However, I can understand a ship with LOTS of smaller weapons that end up totaling 32 or more dice.

And that's where I'm at.  Damn Minbari smile

Ok I'll try to look at splitting the battery into smaller ones, although I'm probably going to mod the few batteries that turn out like this one.

Re: Nova: Weapon Display

diddimus wrote:

Ok I'll try to look at splitting the battery into smaller ones, although I'm probably going to mod the few batteries that turn out like this one.

Just to reiterate -- you CAN reduce all the arc mods by the same number, and shift the columns over accordingly, without breaking the game. The Drydock has an option (currently hidden) to do exactly this.

However, I think it's useful to know the total firepower of a battery, even if you'll only be able to bring a fraction of it to bear against a single target, and so for "official" purposes we will not be doing this.

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: Nova: Weapon Display

Ozymandias wrote:

<IMG src="http://i.imgur.com/nlOVj.png">http://i.imgur.com/nlOVj.png</IMG>

Forgot to mention before...

This is sweet! smile

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: Nova: Weapon Display

Forgot to mention before...

This is sweet!

Thanks. smile

I'm planning to release it, but I need to add firefox support because I wrote it in chrome and chrome sort of messes it up when you go to print it.

Re: Nova: Weapon Display

cricket wrote:
Ozymandias wrote:

<IMG src="http://i.imgur.com/nlOVj.png">http://i.imgur.com/nlOVj.png</IMG>

Forgot to mention before...

This is sweet! smile

Beautiful!
I will just mention one thing: I don't like how armor and hull are organized. I prefer the official way, as, usually, you have to destroy both to check damage. It's not as easy to read here. I suppose the first number after the 'round banks' is the max range?

Marc

Re: Nova: Weapon Display

Ozymandias wrote:

I'm planning to release it, but I need to add firefox support because I wrote it in chrome and chrome sort of messes it up when you go to print it.

Are you willing to share your code for the color-coding?

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: Nova: Weapon Display

I will just mention one thing: I don't like how armor and hull are organized. I prefer the official way, as usually,j you have to destroy both to check damage.

It's a lot easier to compact them with just a marker for the groupings. The layout is a lot more complicated and dependant on the amount of hull/armor with separate groupings. I'm actually unclear on weather you have to go through all the armor to get to the hull, or if you alternate between armor group -> hull group -> armor group.

I suppose the first number after the 'round banks' is the max range?

Yeah. The extra space saved doesn't really help much, but it's also not exactly difficult to figure out the range bands from one number.

Are you willing to share your code for the color-coding?

Of course!

http://foundcake.rexspace.com/starmada/starmada.user.js
http://foundcake.rexspace.com/starmada/starmada.js
http://foundcake.rexspace.com/starmada/starmada.css

There's a (probably simple) bug in the color-coding. I noticed one of my ships I printed out had the wrong color showing. I'll probably be fixing it tonight.

These links are to the files I dev on, so they'll be updated as I go. The userscript only needs to be installed once, since all it does is inject starmada.js from my server.

Re: Nova: Weapon Display

Cool! I may have to add this as an option in the Drydock. (I can't add it to the "official" ship displays, because they are black and white...)

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: Nova: Weapon Display

Pretty slick.  I do like the "arcs" and the colour coding for the weapons.  I prefer the hull/armour layout in 3 separate sections though.

BTW, Dan, I really really like the new chart.  It removes the old problem of having to hit modifers push your to hit over 6+ - and it also eliminates any type of synergy that some traits had linked to the old accuracy stat.

Of course you know already know all of this...  smile

-Tim