• Registered: 2010-03-09
  • Posts: 630

Topic: Star Trek/Star Fleet

I decided to review everything about those ships. Now weapons and ships will come from a mix between  SFU and Star Trek. Ship classification will be SFU-like. Everything else is coming from my twisted mind. :evil:
When designing ships, I will used the number of heavy weapons such a ship should have (for example a CA should have 4 torps, a Dn 6, etc.) and the phasers will be determined as I feel, never (or almost never) having more SU than given.

First the weapons:
Offensive Phaser. Mostly used by Federation, Kzinti, Gorn, etc., they are the most powerful shipboard phasers: BAS 1.2, Rng 9

Intermediate Phaser: Viewed as low-tech weaponry, they are less powerful than offensive phasers but able to take on drones and fighters. BAS 0.9 (Pnp) Tng 6

Defensive Phaser: Due to their very short range, those low-power phasers are mostly used to shoot down drone and fighters. BAS 0.8 (Pnp) Rng 3

Gatling Phaser: A fast-firing defensive phaser. Bas 3 (Pnp, Rpt) Rng 3

Heavy Phaser: Too big to be installed in ships, they are used to deadly effect by bases. BAS 2 (Sct) Rng 15

Photon Torpedo: 'long' range ballistic weapon, they enable federation ships to snipe at enemy ships with good efficiency BAS 1 (Gid, Prc, Dx2) Rng 12

Disruptor: What they lack in power (compared to the Photon), they earn in accuracy. BAS 1.75  (Acr) Rng 12

Plasma D: Mostly an anti-fighter weapon. BAS 1 (Skr, Pnp, Slw) Rng 3

Plasma F: The lowest antiship plasma weapon but still powerful enough. BAS 1 (Sct, Skr, Slw) Rng 9

Plasma G: Same power but longer ranged than F. BAS 1 (Sct, Skr, Prc, Slw) Rng 12

Plasma S: A bit scary. BAS 1 (Sct, Skr, Prc, Dx2, Slw) Rng 15

Plasma R: A nightmare on his own. BAS 1 (Sct, Skr, Prc, Dx3, Slw) Rng 18

Fusion: Short ranged but frightening: BAS 1 (Cts), Rng 6

Hellbore: The boon of shield: BAS 2 (Acr, Prc, Rpt) Rng 12

Drone: Long range accurate weapon (note that I prefer to make it non-Exp, representing mostly one drone shooting per rack, and assuming the ship has enough ammo to shoot any number a them during a battle). BAS 1 (Gid, Skr, Acr, Dx2)

Mauler: No comment. BAS 2 (Cts, Slw) Rng 12 (a ship will have 'many' mauler to represent one weapon).

There are also the web breaker, web fost and particle cannon, althoug I don't know much about those weapons. I will include other weapons from races found in B5 vault in a near future.


Marc

  • Registered: 2012-04-21
  • Posts: 99

Re: Star Trek/Star Fleet

Here's my take on the same weapons. I made a spreadsheet, stuck in weapon values, and played with it for a bit. I decided that the Medium Phaser was my baseline @ BAS 1 and worked from there.

Point Defense Phaser, Rng 3, BAS 0.51
Light Phaser, Rng 6, BAS 0.88, Pinpoint
Medium Phaser, Rng 12, BAS 1
Intermediate Phaser, Rng 12, BAS 0.6

Early Photon Torpedo, Rng 18, BAS 0.74, Guided
Light Photon Torpedo, Rng 18, BAS 0.93, Guided
Photon Torpedo, Rng 24, BAS 1.40, Guided

I've pretty much converted all the weapons, and can either post a whole whack of them  or explain the method to my madness.

Cheers.

  • Registered: 2009-10-17
  • Posts: 13

Re: Star Trek/Star Fleet

I, for one, like to see the method behind the madness as I plan on converting from B5Wars as well.

  • Registered: 2010-03-09
  • Posts: 630

Re: Star Trek/Star Fleet

MRCAcct wrote:

I've pretty much converted all the weapons, and can either post a whole whack of them  or explain the method to my madness.

Cheers.

An explanation could be very interesting. BTW, I replaced the Cts for photon by Prc. First reason, Cts is too powerful and don't give the effect I need for photons. Second, contrary to phasers able to hit many systems (in B5Wars), photons damage only one but are much more able to penetrate armor than phasers.

Compared to your stats, my weapons have a shorter range, mainly because I dislike games where everything is done at long range. I want the ships to close, maneuver, and kill each other at point blank.

Marc

  • Registered: 2012-04-21
  • Posts: 99

Re: Star Trek/Star Fleet

You asked for my madness:

Range (non-ballistic weapons) is based on Range Penalty (for Excel I converted it into a fraction):
-2/hex = 3
-1/hex = 6
-2/3 hex = 9
-1/2 hex = 12
-1/3 hex = 15
"Mega" = 18 (this was a tweak)

Range (ballistic weapons) is based on max range - I took the max range and divided it by 10 to get a 1/x fraction and applied a similar formula:
-2/hex = 6
-1/hex = 9
-2/3 hex = 12
-1/2 hex = 15
-1/3 hex = 18
-1/5 hex = 24
-1/6 hex = 30

For BAS I simply calculated Average damage (it worked better than max damage) and applied traits as follows:

Weapons with a ROF of 1/2 or better: Avg Dmg * ROF (fraction) / 10.75 [10.75 was chosen to give the Medium Phaser a BAS of 1, and was my baseline]. For Antimatter-type weapons (namely Photons) I took the max damage they could inflict.

Slower Weapons: Avg Dmg * 2 * ROF (fraction) / 10.75, given Slow Trait.

Avg. Damage > 31: Double Damage
Avg. Damage > 47: Triple Damage
Catastrophic was given to Son'a Isolytic Torpedo, Romulan Singularity Torpedo, and Borg Laser Slicer (Dual Mode)

Dual Mode Weapons were created for: Heavy Phaser, Dual Phaser, "Advanced" Photon Torpedoes (ones that can hold multiple shots), Borg Laser Slicer, and one or two others I can't recall at the moment. For the Photons I simply multiplied their single shot dmg by the amount they could hold, recalculated, and added Slow. For the others, I recalculated BAS and damage traits based on the new damage and ROF for the alternate modes [will give examples at end].

Other Traits was a little more work:
Accurate: Averaged the first two FC numbers, anything with a 4 or better.
Diffuse: Gave to all Plasma-type weapons and Pulse-mode weapons (was thinking scatter for Pulse, but felt Diffuse waas better).
Guided: Gave to all Ballistic weapons; if a weapon was Guided and Diffuse, Diffuse won.
Piercing: Anything that ignored shields.
Pinpoint: Any "Light" weapon with a Ftr FC bonus of +3 or better
Proximity: Only gave to Son'a Isolytic Torpedo and Malon Spacial Charge.
Repeating: Only gave to Federation Improved Pulse Phaser Cannon and Romulan Disruption Repeater.

The various Weapon Modes were largely ignored as I had a difficult time translating them into modifiers (I had an easier time translating them in SAE).

Dual Mode Examples:
Heavy Phaser (I), Rng 15, BAS 1.99, Accurate, Double Damage, Slow
Heavy Phaser (II), Rng 15, BAS 1, Accurate
Borg Laser Slicer(I), Rng 15, BAS 3.95, Accurate, Triple Damage
Borg Laser Slicer(II), Rng 15, BAS 7.17, Accurate, Catastrophic, Slow
Advanced Photon Torpedo (I), Rng 24, BAS 1.4, Guided
Advanced Photon Torpedo (II), Rng 24, BAS 2.76, Guided, Slow

  • Registered: 2010-03-09
  • Posts: 630

Re: Star Trek/Star Fleet

MRCAcct wrote:

Range (non-ballistic weapons) is based on Range Penalty (for Excel I converted it into a fraction):

I've done the same thing except that I reduced a bit the range for two reasons: First, with alternate moves, you know where you will be regarding the range. With simultaneous moves, a range 3 weapon will almost never fire against ships. Second, longer ranges allow you to fire earlier, and the game lasts a lot less. I like games where there are short range maneuvers.

About the BAS calculation, why not, it looks thorough. Although I feel I will round some numbers.  smile

Marc

  • Registered: 2010-03-09
  • Posts: 630

Re: Star Trek/Star Fleet

MRCAcct, I modify the power of my weapons according to your way to determine BAS, although I uxsed 8 instead of 10.75.

Now, some hints about ships.
Defense:  Currently, the B5W shield is translated as SNE shield. Currently, a value of 20 or 25 = shield of 5. As all ships have some armor integrated to each system, I gave ships some points of armor. ECM will be rare, mainly for scouts and some ships with very good sensors.

Speed: I found a way to compute speed according to rear engines, Accel/decel cost, etc. I don't have the equation at hand but I can give it is you want it.

Ships will have shuttles as in B5w, tractors beams, etc. Ships with the name 'escort' will have the escort trait. Idem for scout.
I will ad some marines, as they are always there on movies, even if most ships doesn't 'carry' them.

I've made some 'small' ships (destroyers, frigates, etc.) and they don't have a big firepower which suits me.

Marc

  • Registered: 2012-04-21
  • Posts: 99

Re: Star Trek/Star Fleet

madpax:

The equation for speed would be nice. Was looking at using the Maximum Acceleration for the ships, but that was giving me a lot of 3s and 4s.

I was looking at using 1/2 shuttles (never been a factor in combat for Star Trek) and tractor beams based on hull size (1 for LCV/MCV, 2 for HCV/CAP, 3 for EU, there's only 1 tractor beam per ship on the SSDs).

Shields I was also looking at doing based on hull size (LCV=6, MCV = 5, HCV = 4, CAP = 3, EU/Base = 2) and maybe tweaking as needed.

I'm also tinkering with modifying the BAS based on weapon modes. ie: A Heavy Phaser in Raking Mode is going to score multiple hits as opposed to single large damage (in SAE terms, it'd be an IMP 3 DMG 1 weapon, compared to a Standard mode Disruptor which would be an IMP 1 DMG 3 weapon).

  • Registered: 2010-03-09
  • Posts: 630

Re: Star Trek/Star Fleet

MRCAcct wrote:

The equation for speed would be nice.

Here it is:

(‘Rear Engine Power' / ‘Accel/decel Cost') + (‘Rear Engine Power' / (20x'Turn Cost')) + (10/(20x'turn delay'))

ie: A Heavy Phaser in Raking Mode is going to score multiple hits as opposed to single large damage (in SAE terms, it'd be an IMP 3 DMG 1 weapon, compared to a Standard mode Disruptor which would be an IMP 1 DMG 3 weapon).

I translated the 'non-raking' mode with good firepower by Prc, as the weapon has a greater ability to inflict damage than a raking weapons which will inflict many smaller ones.

Marc

  • Registered: 2010-12-22
  • Posts: 5

Re: Star Trek/Star Fleet

hello
im not the most computer literate person. ive been going to the b5 vault (which is cool) and try to open or download counters it sends me to tesarta.com which apparently doesnr\t exis t.if you could hel me it would be appreciated

  • Registered: 2010-03-09
  • Posts: 630

Re: Star Trek/Star Fleet

I tried that and it works. It opens a pdf file with picts of the counters. Send me you email via pm and I will send you the files. Tell me the files you need first, there is a lot of them.

Marc

  • Registered: 2010-03-09
  • Posts: 630

Re: Star Trek/Star Fleet

OK. I've done all federation ships of the 23th century. But I'm not pleased with the result. Most of the ships have about the same armament, whether they are destroyer or dreadnought. They vary mostly in speed and shield.
I prefer the usual classification, smaller ships being faster but lacking in every other aspect, whilst it's the opposite for bigger ship. In the end, I created ships using SFU classification (I reorganized the klingon names) and modified weapons. They are now a mix between SFU and Star trek. Every details still on the first message of the topic.
I will post ships as soon as I modified the value (thanks Oldngrey for the shipyard).

Marc