• From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,578

Re: [S:NE] Thoughts on fighters

jygro wrote:

This is going to be the one thing that is going to be hard to wrap my brain around.  Especially since I have a bunch of tiny fighters on bases for the old edition.  Any chance that the fighter options are going to make their way back in the nova edition.  I need fighters to behave differently!

In what way(s)?

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website

  • Registered: 2010-03-09
  • Posts: 630

Re: [S:NE] Thoughts on fighters

I'm surprised at the cost of fighters (still in regards of their supposed - for me - lack of efficiency).
I used the same ship profile (hull 14, shield 5+, thrust 6, no ECM and armor, some miscellaneous things like hyperdrives, shuttles, tractor beams) for two different ships. The first one, a heavy cruiser, has no fighters and costs 215. The decond one traded part of its firepowers to include 8 regular fighters (thus 4 SAE fighters). Its costs rises to 445, more than the double.
I wonder if those fighters are worth the cost...
I should play next week and see that.
BTW, I decided to give them some bonus: They are able to negate one point of ECM (as they are not affected by countermeasures in SAE) and are not affected by Stealth (as in SAE).

Marc

  • Registered: 2005-06-08
  • Posts: 760

Re: [S:NE] Thoughts on fighters

madpax wrote:

I'm surprised at the cost of fighters (still in regards of their supposed - for me - lack of efficiency).
I used the same ship profile (hull 14, shield 5+, thrust 6, no ECM and armor, some miscellaneous things like hyperdrives, shuttles, tractor beams) for two different ships. The first one, a heavy cruiser, has no fighters and costs 215. The decond one traded part of its firepowers to include 8 regular fighters (thus 4 SAE fighters). Its costs rises to 445, more than the double.
I wonder if those fighters are worth the cost...
I should play next week and see that.
BTW, I decided to give them some bonus: They are able to negate one point of ECM (as they are not affected by countermeasures in SAE) and are not affected by Stealth (as in SAE).

Marc

The CRAT addition for the 8 regular fighters is 200 (same as 4 flights in SAE).
If you used the shipyard, sorry a little bit of the extra was my fault (DRAT error found & Fixed), fighters have always been expensive fireworks though.

Paul

  • Registered: 2006-01-17
  • Posts: 740

Re: [S:NE] Thoughts on fighters

When I played fighters with out piercing, they were Not cost effective against shielded ships.
Cricket has suggested a multiplyer of 1.36 to add piercing to fighters.  Since I am not skilled at designing by hand, I have made Carriers with 14, 21, and 28 flights of fighters. 
:idea: I can play them as they are or as if they had 10, 15, or 20 fighters with piercing.  I am playing Starmada with friends on Thursday and will see how this works out.  The CVs will be escorted by DDGs which have seeker-missiles as a main weapon.  This will help overload the other side's AA ability. 
It will be interesting toill see how it works.  I think that the addition of piercing will make the fighters more formatable.

  • Registered: 2005-06-08
  • Posts: 760

Re: [S:NE] Thoughts on fighters

One last thing.

BeowulfJB, wish you would call them "Independent Fighters" instead of "long Range Fighters" which sort of gives the impression of their being able to fire further. smile

Paul

  • Registered: 2006-01-17
  • Posts: 740

Re: [S:NE] Thoughts on fighters

Good idea; I will edit the previous post also.

  • Registered: 2006-01-17
  • Posts: 740

Re: [S:NE] Thoughts on fighters

BeowulfJB wrote:

I like having "Independant Fighters"  the way the were in earlier editions.  These fighters do not need a Carrier, but are presumed to come from bases on a planet/space station/asteroid, etc.  They may even have hyperdrive just the way that Luke Skywalker's fighter did in the movie "The Empier Strikes Back".
Would their cost in S:NE be
25 x cost-for-fighter-traits x 1.1 ? 
If so, I wanted to make some Independant bombers that have {tough+strong+piercing+IndependantFighter}.  These could act as B-25s or Beaty Bombers, etc did in WW2. 
:idea: Are these numbers good for a trial?
Cheers
PS:  The Gaming-con Rapier2012 is in 2 1/2 weeks here in Jacksonville.  I will be running several games of S:NE  8-)

  • Registered: 2010-11-18
  • Posts: 9

Re: [S:NE] Thoughts on fighters

cricket wrote:
jygro wrote:

This is going to be the one thing that is going to be hard to wrap my brain around.  Especially since I have a bunch of tiny fighters on bases for the old edition.  Any chance that the fighter options are going to make their way back in the nova edition.  I need fighters to behave differently!

In what way(s)?

Some SAE options that would be very cool to have:
-Interceptor (-1 vs everything but drones / fighters / shuttles / seekers?)
-Bomber (-1 vs fighter flights / drones / shuttles / seekers?)
-Double Damage (for simulating photon- or plasma-armed fighters from SFB)

Another option: Extended (Attack) Range, i.e. range-2 fighters.

  • Registered: 2006-01-17
  • Posts: 740

Re: [S:NE] Thoughts on fighters

Adding Dx2 or even Dx3 to simulate theequivilant of Stukas, Dauntlas DBs and Helldivers in WW2 would be excellent.
(And don't forget "Independant Fighters"...O.C.D. here<LOL>)

  • Registered: 2010-03-09
  • Posts: 630

Re: [S:NE] Thoughts on fighters

I know I'm ranting, but if fighters are still expensive as they are now, they are not worth the cost. Just look at the price of carriers...
Sadly.

Marc

  • Registered: 2006-01-17
  • Posts: 740

Re: [S:NE] Thoughts on fighters

When I play again, I will use  my 724pt CVL USS Independance design.  This ship with 13 Hull & 9 Ablative armor and a few weapons can carry either 21 Flights with Str or 15 Flights with Str & Prc.  The ship will have DDGs escorting it that have Seeker weapons as their main battery.  8-)
Will let everyone know hot the battle went...

  • From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2005-03-27
  • Posts: 3,578

Re: [S:NE] Thoughts on fighters

I have provided my explanation for the cost of fighters, and compared them to how fighters performed in previous editions. If you still think they are over-priced, there is no reason you can't house-rule some additional advantages or reduce their cost accordingly.

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

mj12games's Website

  • Registered: 2010-03-09
  • Posts: 630

Re: [S:NE] Thoughts on fighters

I feel my 'problems' with fighters are of two kinds. First,, for the same price, I found them undergunned when compared to SAE. They no more shoot before ships, suffer from ECM and stealth (at least, in SAE, they weren't affected by countermeasures and stealth)...
Second, the price of carrier is very important. I can add some advantages (for example, they negate one point of ECM and are not affected by stealth) but it would make CV price still too important. And I'm really not sure they would be cost-effective. If I could reduce the price of carrier for my own use, that would be fine.

Marc

  • Registered: 2006-01-17
  • Posts: 740

Re: [S:NE] Thoughts on fighters

I have played fighters, I use Strong Fighters, but I found that they need piercing. 
Cricket has figured that adds a ( x 1.36) modifier to the cost of the flight.  So what I have been doing is making sure that the # of flights I have on my carrier designs is a multiple of 7.  This way I can use them as regular strong fighters, or swap out each group of seven for five with Strong & Piercing.  I presume that the cost is nearly the same for each.
Shielded ships are brutal for fighters to have to deal with.  In all honesty, I have yet to use these strong fighters with Piercing yet.  Hopefully, when I play on Thursday, I will get to use them.  Although, it seems my friends have abandoned shields on their ships going for lotsa armor instead.  This means I may simply use the Strong fighters without piercing after-all... :geek: