Topic: The Trouble with Troops

Reading through the rules, I notice that there seems to be a trouble with troops.  The description states that they can be taken as a special equipment hit.  However, troops have no offense or defensive value, and only take up 10 space units.  This means troops could be taken as a buffer (or cannon fodder, as it were) to keep other special equipment from being destroyed for no change in the ship's combat value.  So many troops could be taken for only the cost of space as to make the ship's special equipment virtually indestructible.

This is only according to the description for Troops.  In the summery table on page 19, however, Troops are listed as not being able to be hit.  Obviously from my concern, I agree with this... Troops should not be able to buffer hits for systems more pertinent for the space combat, just like medical bays, science labs, etc... just used for campaign type games.  Is this the correct current ruling on troops?  Perhaps this should be addressed in the FAQ?

Fred

Re: The Trouble with Troops

Vitruvian Man wrote:

Reading through the rules, I notice that there seems to be a trouble with troops.  The description states that they can be taken as a special equipment hit.

Actually, I don't have the book in front of me, but what it SHOULD say is that troops can be sacrificed to avoid a crew casualty hit, and NOT a special equipment hit.

This is only according to the description for Troops.  In the summery table on page 19, however, Troops are listed as not being able to be hit.  Obviously from my concern, I agree with this...

This is correct. Troops are not a viable 'Q' hit.

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: The Trouble with Troops

RED SHIRTS! RED SHIRTS! tongue

Re: The Trouble with Troops

on p 33 of the Brigade book it says

"If a player chooses to lose troops as a result of a special equipment hit"

jim

Re: The Trouble with Troops

jimbeau wrote:

on p 33 of the Brigade book it says

"If a player chooses to lose troops as a result of a special equipment hit"

Yup. That's because I cut and pasted the terminology from another section. As I said before, the troops should only be sacrificed as a crew casualty, and not as a "Q" hit.

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: The Trouble with Troops

Sounds like if it isn't in the errata already, it should be.

Re: The Trouble with Troops

cricket wrote:
jimbeau wrote:

on p 33 of the Brigade book it says

"If a player chooses to lose troops as a result of a special equipment hit"

Yup. That's because I cut and pasted the terminology from another section. As I said before, the troops should only be sacrificed as a crew casualty, and not as a "Q" hit.

Sorry to press you here, but if you have a large amount of troops you can use them to absorb crew casualties? Say, from the Yenpalo meson beams?

Great. Now I know how to defend myself against them...:D big_smile

Re: The Trouble with Troops

murtalianconfederacy wrote:

Sorry to press you here, but if you have a large amount of troops you can use them to absorb crew casualties? Say, from the Yenpalo meson beams?

That would be correct.

I didn't say there wasn't a potential for abuse... smile

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: The Trouble with Troops

True...

But now, all you have to do is build massive troop ships with massive weapons to defeat the Yenpalo threat! I'll get on it right away...:D

Re: The Trouble with Troops

If you want padding for Q hits, use Transporters, which are insanely cheap.  They also combo nicely with Security Troops, which soak your Crew hits for you.

Or did we fix that at some point and I missed it?  smile

Rich

Re: The Trouble with Troops

Yes, you did miss it. I missed transporters completely--I bought the Compendium, and then Starmada X Brigade, missing the transporter era...:D

Re: The Trouble with Troops

Speaking of Transporters... can anyone tell me what the rules for them were?  I looked in X and the Compendium, but they aren't in there.  I'd like to use them for my Star Trek games. 

I have altered the spreadsheet so I can include them as a special equipment item that can be destroyed, but they have no point cost or value, as I don't know what they'd be worth.  I figure for now, until I get actual stats, every ship would have one and only one, to represent the whole transporter system for the ship, so it should equal out point wise. 

Rulewise, I'm thinking it as having a 5 hex range (or, I vaguely recall someone mentioning it having a 10 hex range) and they can transport marines directly onto a ship, instead of relying on pods.  Of course facing shields on both ships must be down or dropped for the turn. 

Of course these would be house rules for the Star Trek universe, as obviously the system has been dropped from the official rules.  But if anyone can get me what the rules were so I can expound on my ideas, that would be great.  Thanks!

Fred

Re: The Trouble with Troops

Vitruvian Man wrote:

Speaking of Transporters... can anyone tell me what the rules for them were?  I looked in X and the Compendium, but they aren't in there.  I'd like to use them for my Star Trek games.

They were called "teleporters" and worked like this:

Some sci-fi settings have “teleporters” or “transporters”; machines that are able to move people from one place to another without actually traveling through the space in between. These items can have a significant impact on combat by allowing a starship to move marines onto an enemy ship.

Each teleporter allows one “attack” against an enemy starship within five hexes during the Combat Phase. In order to do so, roll one die; if the result is greater than the sum of the distance to the target plus the target's shield rating, the teleport is successful and the target ship has an attacking marine squad on board. Obviously, one marine squad must also be removed from the attacking ship.

For example, a starship with three teleporters is attempting to move marines onto an enemy ship three hexes away. The target has a current shield rating of 2; the sum of the range and shields is 5. This means a roll of 6 is necessary for a successful teleport. Three dice are rolled (one per teleporter), coming up 2, 3, and 6. Therefore, one marine squad is moved from the attacking ship to the target ship.

A starship may not make more teleport rolls than it has marine squads remaining; e.g., if a ship has 10 teleporters, but only 4 marine squads left, it may only make up to 4 teleport rolls.

Security teams may be teleported in the same way as marine squads.

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: The Trouble with Troops

Hey, thanks!  Do they have a recommended SU, offensive and defensive value?

Fred

Re: The Trouble with Troops

Vitruvian Man wrote:

Hey, thanks!  Do they have a recommended SU, offensive and defensive value?

Yup.

10 SUs per teleporter; each adds to the Offensive Rating:

(MPs + 5) x 30%

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: The Trouble with Troops

cricket wrote:
Vitruvian Man wrote:

Hey, thanks!  Do they have a recommended SU, offensive and defensive value?

Yup.

10 SUs per teleporter; each adds to the Offensive Rating:

(MPs + 5) x 30%

Thanks for the information.  But, does a Q hit damage only one teleporter, or 1D6 teleporters?  Because if it's one for one, then they're too cheap as Q hits.  Usually its my hyperdrive that gets damaged and repaired often  lol but now it never gets damaged at all (until the ship blows up, anyway).  1D6 seems excessive for teleporter losses, perhaps 1D3 are lost per Q hit?

Re: The Trouble with Troops

GamingGlen wrote:

Thanks for the information.  But, does a Q hit damage only one teleporter, or 1D6 teleporters?  Because if it's one for one, then they're too cheap as Q hits.

The rules as they had been written do not say anything on the subject, indicating that it is one teleporter per Q hit.

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: The Trouble with Troops

cricket wrote:
GamingGlen wrote:

Thanks for the information.  But, does a Q hit damage only one teleporter, or 1D6 teleporters?  Because if it's one for one, then they're too cheap as Q hits.

The rules as they had been written do not say anything on the subject, indicating that it is one teleporter per Q hit.

But Teleporters are gone now, aren't they?  In part *because* of that problem.

If you're trying to use them to model Star Trek or something, I'd advise having a Q hit knock out *all* your Teleporters.  The Enterprise has what, a dozen or more of the fool things, but when one breaks down, they never just go use another one.  Of course that has more to do with plot requirements and set budgets than anything, but still...

Rich

Re: The Trouble with Troops

hundvig wrote:

But Teleporters are gone now, aren't they?  In part *because* of that problem.

Indeed. And I have no interest in bringing them back "officially". I just wanted to let the original poster know how they had been handled when they did exist. smile

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: The Trouble with Troops

cricket wrote:
hundvig wrote:

But Teleporters are gone now, aren't they?  In part *because* of that problem.

Indeed. And I have no interest in bringing them back "officially". I just wanted to let the original poster know how they had been handled when they did exist. smile

That's news to me. 

If they lose 1d6 of them per hit, would that make it better?

You hear this, Beowulf?  No more cheesy 10 teleporters on each of your capital ships.   lol

Re: The Trouble with Troops

Geez,

When you blow up someone's fleet, they get soooo cranky.  <LOL>
In all seriousness, my gaming buddy up here in Jacksonville never puts shields on his ships, just PDS.  I intend to board one of his ships when he gets too close.  I cannot wait to see the look on his face!!!  BTW, the newest battleships I designed using Gaming Glenn's improved program now only have 5, 6, or 7 teleporters.  I will let you all know when I finally get to board one of my friends shieldless DeepSpaceNine-style
Ghen-ha-dar type ships  smile  smile  smile

Steven Gilchrist; Jacksonville, FLorida, USA

PS:  Grailquest is the weekend after next  ! !