Re: Car Wars / Road Warrior

In a way Bren...that's what'll be happening.  Only it will be related to engine and chassis size.  So a '72 Mustang with a 502 8-cyl may accelerate 2 units per turn and that old Dodge van with the 6-cyl will only accelerate 1 unit per turn.    The math is needed to establish the rate to stay within the established movement scale however.

If you want physics...well...you have 1/3 the tire traction on ice (with studs) that you do on wet pavement with average tires.   tongue another amazing fact from the peanut department.  lol  :wink:

Re: Car Wars / Road Warrior

This has been updated.

It should now be a playable at least 'beer and pretzels' game.

No promises my ramblings make sense  :shock:

Re: Car Wars / Road Warrior

Basic Impression:
Seems fiddly, but I haven't played so I can't really make that assessment.  I know that there seem to be a lot of situations where I am going to be expected to multiply on the fly and re-roll, etc.  Again, that's an initial impression and I will probably change my mind after playing.

Speed:
What difference does it make what the car length is?  I understand that you're trying for "universal" but the de facto standard for toy cars is matchbox scale, so make that the standrard so I don't have to multiply 5 by 1.5 every time I want to go 50mph. Plus, the matchbox scale isn't even correct from car to car in the line so you're trying to build a coherent system out of a random scale.

Accel and Braking:
um, braking table? 10-20, 20-30, 20-50? 

How about Handling Loss is MV/2 round up?
i.e.
10-20: 1
30-40: 2
50-60: 3
etc

I do not understand what the speed table is used for unless it's a max accel rate then I do understand and would expect that to be part of car construction, rather than based off the size of the engine.  i.e. if I want a car with a top speed of 200 and an accel of 1, I should be able to choose it. If I want a car that has a top speed of 80 and an accell of 6 I should be able to pick that. And, as has been said, let the engineers and physicists do their job and build it.

Maneuvers:
there's no difference between drift and align is there?

Driver skill is a neat idea. 

I don't like the tables for out of control, bt I can't think of a better way to do it.

I could care less about pedestrians. they are crunchy targets.  Riding on the running boards is idiotic, and should have a higher penalty.

Shooting:
Too complicated, at first glance.  I'd hate to have to go through a table of modifiers every time I take a shot at someone. That's so 80s smile

Penetration:
What kind of armor is there going to be is the weapons all have PEN modifiers (+5 pen? wow that's a lot)

< Armor: No Pen
= Armor: part. pen
> armor: pen
2x Armor: catastrophic

That table is just plain icky

Ramming: ok

Weapons:
Wow, um, why can't I just choose my range, choose my rof/pen and then add specials?

what the heck is load?

Gangers:
Whay can't I just pick a number?

Gang design and car design:
This is really nice. simple and easy to use. but where's the square root? smile

Conclusion:
obviously a rough draft and needs extensive playtesting to ensure the concepts are going to translate.  I don't think I can play based on the rules I see, but I will try.

Hopefully this weekenfd will offer me the opportunity... I may have some extra time. (yay)

Don't take this wrong: I will play test it and I see the need for a car combat game as good as starmada.

Re: Car Wars / Road Warrior

Ironchicken wrote:

This has been updated.
It should now be a playable at least 'beer and pretzels' game.
No promises my ramblings make sense  :shock:

I'll try to take a look at this over the next few days and add some comments. Although at a quick first glance I think I agree with some of Jim's comments.
Kevin

Re: Car Wars / Road Warrior

First thanks for the comments. I will take on board and see if I can correct. They point out many valid faults and ommissions the first and most obvious is that I forgot to describe car armour  :oops:

I am giving my reasoning below and not being defensive  lol

jimbeau wrote:

Basic Impression:
Seems fiddly, but I haven't played so I can't really make that assessment.  I know that there seem to be a lot of situations where I am going to be expected to multiply on the fly and re-roll, etc.  Again, that's an initial impression and I will probably change my mind after playing.

I kept it to 2-5 times table. I thought this would be simple enough. Because cars will have handling around 6 or 7 then you should not be doing all that higher math. at 70MPH or less you either multiply by 1 or 2. (3 if you have lost a wheel). I am not convinced it will be that hard.

Speed:
What difference does it make what the car length is?  I understand that you're trying for "universal" but the de facto standard for toy cars is matchbox scale, so make that the standrard so I don't have to multiply 5 by 1.5 every time I want to go 50mph. Plus, the matchbox scale isn't even correct from car to car in the line so you're trying to build a coherent system out of a random scale.

Car length was the unit origionally discussed earlier in the thread for scaling. I used it because i thought it a good idea. Could easily be changed

Accel and Braking:
um, braking table? 10-20, 20-30, 20-50?

:oops: will fix

How about Handling Loss is MV/2 round up?
i.e.
10-20: 1
30-40: 2
50-60: 3
etc

will use

I do not understand what the speed table is used for unless it's a max accel rate then I do understand and would expect that to be part of car construction, rather than based off the size of the engine.  i.e. if I want a car with a top speed of 200 and an accel of 1, I should be able to choose it. If I want a car that has a top speed of 80 and an accell of 6 I should be able to pick that. And, as has been said, let the engineers and physicists do their job and build it.

I was working on a mad-max ganger type game. I wanted to start with something that gave the right feel. cars accellerate a lot more at low speeds than high. A Porche does 0-60 a lot quicker than it does 60-100. I gave a set of basic engine/gearboxess and their performance. This seemed the most appropriate approach. 

Maneuvers:
there's no difference between drift and align is there?

Align can only be done at the end of a car's turn to help with aiming. Drift is an in turn maneouvre

Driver skill is a neat idea.

I like it too  8)

I don't like the tables for out of control, bt I can't think of a better way to do it.

I know what you mean it was KISS

I could care less about pedestrians. they are crunchy targets.  Riding on the running boards is idiotic, and should have a higher penalty.

Agreed but it may be important in a game so they needed rules

Shooting:
Too complicated, at first glance.  I'd hate to have to go through a table of modifiers every time I take a shot at someone. That's so 80s smile

Less modifiers and lower shooting skill... got it  lol

Penetration:
What kind of armor is there going to be is the weapons all have PEN modifiers (+5 pen? wow that's a lot)

< Armor: No Pen
= Armor: part. pen
> armor: pen
2x Armor: catastrophic

That table is just plain icky

Armour... going for the mad max genre feel with welded on plates and grilles I was going to have a standard car have 3D3 armour on each side. 1D6+5 is a very likely penetrate and could be serious.

catastrophc is armour +3 not 2X

The table should be in genre tho' for the mad max gangwar type game. It would not suit a polished carwars type of game at all.

Ramming: ok

Weapons:
Wow, um, why can't I just choose my range, choose my rof/pen and then add specials?



what the heck is load?

Again I was going for real world weapons and sticking with the mad max genre. A shotgun is a shotgun.

Load is the number of turns you must miss loading. Mainly for crossbows

Gangers:
Whay can't I just pick a number?

People are not like that spaceships are


Gang design and car design:
This is really nice. simple and easy to use. but where's the square root? smile

Nailed to my wall tongue

Conclusion:
obviously a rough draft and needs extensive playtesting to ensure the concepts are going to translate.  I don't think I can play based on the rules I see, but I will try.

Agreed I will get some more work done tonight.

Hopefully this weekenfd will offer me the opportunity... I may have some extra time. (yay)

Don't take this wrong: I will play test it and I see the need for a car combat game as good as starmada.

I did not take it wrong.... I will try and get a better draft up before i go to bed 23:00 UK time

Re: Car Wars / Road Warrior

underling wrote:
Ironchicken wrote:

This has been updated.
It should now be a playable at least 'beer and pretzels' game.
No promises my ramblings make sense  :shock:

I'll try to take a look at this over the next few days and add some comments. Although at a quick first glance I think I agree with some of Jim's comments.
Kevin

Updated taking your coments into consideration. Stuck all the tables on the end with 1.5":unit conversion as a quick-read sheet and made up a gang sheet and Example.

Have fun.

Re: Car Wars / Road Warrior

Looks pretty promising Iron.  smile  Carry on the great work mate! 
(not much good for playtesting since noone within 100+ miles to play with here...darn it.  :? )

Re: Car Wars / Road Warrior

http://www.tablegamer.com/gfx/sstest/

Re: Car Wars / Road Warrior

Poor Dan...

guess that explains the silence, eh? wink

That's a nice run through Jim. smile

Re: Car Wars / Road Warrior

Worked example of a fairly complex movement. Hope it makes sense.

Dan has Driver skill 6 and is in a car with handling 7 and a heavy engine.
At the beginning of the turn Dan is doing 50mph (5 units of move) and SDN2.
He moves 2 and then performs a 90° turn SDN2 and difficulty 3 total handling used is 6. Still ok with 1 handling left. He accounts the 0 drag (1-1 for high torque engine). He then moves 1 and uses a skill point to reduce turn delay from 2 (SDN) to 1. Then performs a 45° turn SDN2 and difficulty 1 for a total of 2. This takes his total handling to 8 so he must make an out of control check. Rolls a D6 and gets 3 +1 for over handling and +2 for SDN giving a total of 6. He burns a driver skill to adjust the result to 5 and skids. Roll D3 and gets a 2 moving him 2 units in the direction he was going before he turned and his speed is dropped to 40MPH from the skid at the end of the turn. That uses up the remainder of his movement. He is doing 40 and therefore can accelerate to 60MPH and does so.

Dan used 2 driver skill during the turn and all the car's handling. He has no shot to take and so can use his 4 skill to recover 4 handling for next turn.

Next turn will start with Dan with 6 driver skill and a car with only 4 handling. He is going 60MPH.

Re: Car Wars / Road Warrior

Next turn Dan wants to make a 90° turn without skidding to get a shot.

At the beginning of the turn he brakes to 40MPH (braking can be performed at the beginning or end of a turn) 1 handling, 3 remaining.

He then moves 3 and makes a 90° turn. SDN1 difficulty 3 total 3 handling. Safe with 0 handling left. He then moves 1 forward to end his move. He has a good shot and uses 2 driving skill to aim. He also accelerates back up to 60 to keep his options open. At the end of the turn he has 2 driver skill left and no Handling therefore he recovers 2. It is unlikely he will do much maneouvering next turn whilst he struggles to get the car back under his control.

Re: Car Wars / Road Warrior

okay, now handling makes sense, and is completly confusing at the same time but I think I can muddle through again.  we'll see

I want to pick my own handling and armor. and engine stats too.

And, what is a small template and how does that work?

Re: Car Wars / Road Warrior

A GW scatter die is just a die with arrows on it. a spinner or a coin with an arrow on both sides would do just the same. It is just a way to get a random direction.

Small template is 3" diameter circle and a large is 5" diameter.

Everyone I know has all these. Bad assumption on my part sorry.

Re: Car Wars / Road Warrior

The skid thing....

From a start position with a die roll (or spinner, coin whatever)..

<IMG src="http://www.ironchicken.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/firstposition.jpg">http://www.ironchicken.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/firstposition.jpg</IMG>

A fishtail involves rotating the car the minimum to align its centre-line with the direction arrow

<IMG src="http://www.ironchicken.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/fishtail.jpg">http://www.ironchicken.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/fishtail.jpg</IMG>

A spin involves rotating the car the maximum to align its centre-line with the direction arrow (effectively fishtail+180°)

<IMG src="http://www.ironchicken.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/spin.jpg">http://www.ironchicken.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/spin.jpg</IMG>

Inretrospect it would be better that a spin just aligned the car with the arrow. Totally random new direction. This would avoid someone using the spin as a free bootleg. I think I will change it to that.

Re: Car Wars / Road Warrior

Keep the spin because sometimes when the car spins it hits stuff along the spin.  and you need to deal with that in the rules