Topic: Crew Casualties

I got the chance to do some final testing of The Merchant War this weekend, thanks to Jim and Mike and Mike and Noel... wink

Looks like the thing is pretty much good to go. One question that has come up in my own mind, however, is the way in which crew casualties are being handled. Right now, the mechanic is the same as for Starmada X (i.e., a crew casualty weapon automatically does a "hull" hit which can be overlapped by real hull damage).

In SX, this is relatively easy to point-cost, since the percentage of hull hits is constant across ship designs. However, in IS, a ship can have as little as 25% or as much as 70% of its damage location track devoted to hull hits. This variation leads to crew casualty weapons being MUCH more effective against smaller targets.

Is this a problem? I don't know... Matt says no, but I'm still wondering.

So I ask the group: any ideas?

Dan

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: Crew Casualties

how disruptive is adding a crew "value"?
You could generate a number of crew hit boxes based on hull, weapons, etc.

And why didn't we play Iron Stars when I was with you guys?
*hurrumph*

Re: Crew Casualties

Matt has said no because of the following reasons (all based off playing TMW's "Things to Come"):

Against Large ships -- like the Orpington or a Gauntlet class BC, it really doesn't pay to employ this kind of kit (because of the overlap) until the target is on its last legs.  IE -- If I'm targeting a BB with 20+ hull hits, if I start with weapons that inflict crew casualties, but then switch to conventional guns (I don't stick with my original strategy), all that damage I inflicted is pointless, as I have to start over.  Against sizeable vessels, weapons employing poison gas really should be used to apply the coup de grace.

Against smallish-medium ships, I think weapons like poison gas mounts are no better, or worse than conventional pieces because while poison gas has the potential to wipe out the ship very quickly, it can do nothing to eliminate guns or propulsion.  So as long as the target is still alive, it's hitting you just as hard as it was before taking any damage.  Example would be that in the scenario, Vaterland and Freiheit could bloody the Tychos pretty quick, but not quick enough to stop them from finishing their torp runs. 

Against 1 or 2 hull destroyers -- yeah -- crew casualties are a bitch (noted that in the AAR post in forum).  But I don't know how unbalanced that makes the weapon.  Most 1 or 2 hull destroyers can be taken out by a single torpedo, or a (X2) conventional gun.  Hell, FACs eat the little destroyers alive.  And as they're worth all of 7 VPs, usually, that doesn't make me blink. 

So in the one scenario I've played that features poison gas (I've played it twice, some friends of mine, once), it really hasn't felt like it's tipping the game one way or another. 

Maybe I'm wrong smile

Re: Crew Casualties

Could you have non-hull hits by poison gas or other crew casualty inflicting weapons (IE -- if it hits the secondaries, primaries, light guns or armor) simply be ignored?

The reason is that a large explosive round can take out a weapon or damage the ship's thrust without actually piercing its hull and exploding deep in the guts of the target.  For engine hits, maybe the sails are damaged, or the screw warped.  For weapons, hell, the turret's jammed, the external portions of the weapon blown apart, whatever.

But gas is only good if it gets inside the ship.  So only apply its damage if it lands a hull hit.

Re: Crew Casualties

themattcurtis wrote:

Could you have non-hull hits by poison gas or other crew casualty inflicting weapons (IE -- if it hits the secondaries, primaries, light guns or armor) simply be ignored?

I had been considering such an idea... but I wasn't sure if this would go too far the other way and make poison gas useless.

Dan

Daniel Kast
Majestic Twelve Games
cricket@mj12games.com

Re: Crew Casualties

Originally you were talking about having a set number of crew boxes based on hull size (Hull/2?)

You can mix some ideas.

Have crew-targeting weapons roll on the target's damage track, but anything other than a hull hit is ignored.

The fact that you only have half as many crew boxes as hull bits, though, means that when the shells do penetrate the hull, they hit twice as hard.

This way, VS ships would die after taking 1 to 2 crew hits (we'd be talking 1 hull/2 rounded up all the way to 3 hull/2 rounded up).  But achieving those hits would be a little harder than the way it is now. 

A small ship like the Tycho could take 3 such hits (5 Hull/2). 

The Gauntlet could take 10 crew casualties (19/2).

This way, VS ships are still killed by at most 2 crew hits, but by getting rid of the "automatic" damage previously seen in poison gas, you make it less likely to happen.  On the other end, heavier ships will have to view poison gas and other crew-targeting weapons as more of a threat.

Re: Crew Casualties

I don't know if you see the above approach as awkward, but really it would impose only one rule on the weapons, and the affected stat would be derived simply by looking at the targeted ship.

You see gas as too rough on little ships, and yer probably right.  I see it as limited against larger ships unless they're half dead.

Re: Crew Casualties

I found that, on the whole, poison gas is vastly more effective against smaller ships, for these reasons:

1) In the Merchant War, most of the gas guns are short-ranged. When I played the last scenario, the British Orpington, a whale of an ether-ship, was able to keep its range and blast the poor gas gun-armed ship into smithereens. Smaller ships can't mount the weapons as seen on Orpington, and mainly mount torpedoes which are extremely short-ranged, thus allowing a gas gun-armed ship to give these vessels 4/6 gas guns each and kill the crew.

2) vessels such as the Alpha or Gamma only have 2 hull boxes. One hit from these guns and WHAM! your crews dead or half-dead. They also have weak armour, which both allows the gas guns a chance of penetration and increases the range at which these weapons can engage. Three destroyers were lost this way, as they closed they were outside of torpedo range, but inside gas gun range and they died.

I have no suggestion, however.

Re: Crew Casualties

Maybe you should try going back to the old Starmada system and mark crew casualties from the back of the track?  That way you wouldn't be wasting effort when you use both conventional and gas guns on a larger target...assuming that's the issue.

Rich