2,851 Reply by mj12games

(26 replies, posted in Iron Stars)

hundvig wrote:

And how much of that would be changed by the Invasion?  Sure, it failed, but it also hurt some countries pretty badly, the UK in particular.

Dunno. I had been assuming that the Invasion focused on the population centers, in order to deal a "knockout blow"... the ten largest cities in 1900 were:

London, United Kingdom    6,480,000
New York, United States    4,242,000
Paris, France    3,330,000
Berlin, Germany    2,707,000
Chicago, United States    1,717,000
Vienna, Austria    1,698,000
Tokyo, Japan    1,497,000
St. Petersburg, Russia    1,439,000
Manchester, United Kingdom    1,435,000
Philadelphia, United States    1,418,000

But we've also had 10 years to recover, so I don't know how to reflect the impact of the Martians...

Go to forum: Iron Stars

2,852 Topic by mj12games

(26 replies, posted in Iron Stars)

As mentioned in a different thread, I've picked up a book of historical stats for world economies (one of the benefits to working on a college campus!)

Anyway, I'm wondering if the GDP is a good method to gauge the potential sizes of various countries' ether fleets. To get things started, here's the 1913 GDPs for the nations currently represented in IS (in millions of 1990 $):

ABC Powers: 57,509 (includes Argentina, Brazil, Chile)
Austria: 39,898 (includes Hungary)
China: 241,344
France: 171,874 (includes Algeria, Tunisia, and Vietnam)
Germany: 237,332
Italy: 95,487
Japan: 80,331 (includes South Korea)
Russia: 232,351 (actually "the former USSR", and needs to be split between Reds and Whites)
Spain: 41,653
Turkey: 40,588 (actually "15 West Asian countries", most of which were part of the Ottoman Empire)
United Kingdom: 506,309 (includes India, Ireland, Canada, Australia & NZ)
United States: 517,383

Go to forum: Iron Stars

2,853 Reply by mj12games

(23 replies, posted in Iron Stars)

go0gleplex wrote:

what was the technological/industrial level?  I thought China was primarily agrarian at the time. smile

Well, that's kinda the problem... I don't know if "pure" GDP is a good way to gauge it or not. And if not, then what is?

I'm starting a new thread for this, so we don't hijack Matt's questions about the Chinese fleet itself.

Go to forum: Iron Stars

2,854 Reply by mj12games

(23 replies, posted in Iron Stars)

No problems here with revitalizing the Chinese... but...

For three days now, I've been trying to figure out how to quantify countries' ability to field an ether fleet. I actually found a book that purports to give estimates of nations' GDPs from the year 1 (!) all the way through 2001... so it's a start.

But I'm just not sure if that's the way to go.

If it is, then China's economic power in 1913 is greater than everyone but the UK (including her colonies) and the United States... that's a helluva fleet!

Go to forum: Iron Stars

2,855 Reply by mj12games

(7 replies, posted in Iron Stars)

themattcurtis wrote:

Actually, I mis-typed.  ALL weapons are halved according to the rules in The Merchant War.  Not just guns.

Right... all weapons except machine guns.

Just making sure we remember that, as it's the reason MGs exist in the first place. smile

Go to forum: Iron Stars

2,856 Reply by mj12games

(4 replies, posted in Iron Stars)

wminsing wrote:

Actually, I'd be interested in hearing what people think of piracy in Iron Stars.  At the 'present day' I have a hard time seeing Ether-pirates as viable, but as traffic increases from the earth following asteroids and commericial space stations are built I can see several ways it could arise.

Now that we have boarding rules, I don't see any reason NOT to have pirates.

Although I'd be more interested in state-sponsored piratical sea-dogs, like Drake for Elizabeth/England, rather than freelancers like Blackbeard. Just a personal bias... wink

Go to forum: Iron Stars

2,857 Reply by mj12games

(4 replies, posted in Iron Stars)

pyrrhus wrote:

Any body thought of adapting Nemo and his ship and perhaps some other pirates?

Although "officially" I'm not sure where Nemo would fit in space, there's nothing wrong with trying to work up a Nautilus-type ship for fun...

Of course, that would mean ramming rules, and y'all know by now how I feel about those. smile

Go to forum: Iron Stars

2,858 Reply by mj12games

(45 replies, posted in Iron Stars)

go0gleplex wrote:

Given as the Martians had to shoot the cylinders to earth, I don't believe they have a maneuverability advantage at all.  Coupled with their development of 360-arcs of fire, maneuver becomes either redundant or at least of a secondary concern.

Actually, there's no proof that the cylinders were "shot" all the way to Earth. The flashes of light on the surface of Mars could have been anything.

I've been operating on the assumption that the cylinders were in fact "drop pods" of a sort, and that the Martian ether fleet was in orbit during the invasion, retreating after its failure.

Range...yes, they should outrange standard human weapons.  They should be using keel gun ranges for their primary heat beams.  I don't think I'd give them keel bombards at all with their other obvious advantages...why would they bother, particularly if they've eschewed projectile weapons.  Their obvious advantage in range would also tend to have them neglect light guns.

Some food for thought here, but I don't want to make the Martian ships completely different than the standards established for the Earthers...

The black smoke was sprayed out over the countryside...not shot forth. That was a red russian innovation and proved volatile to them.

Indeed. I'm not sure the Martians would use black smoke in shells (at least not right away).

For a unique Martian weapon...parasite drones...in lieu of FACs.  (Think battle satellites in Starmada with a single heat ray.)

Hmm.

The Martians use the thermal shields in lieu of armor...

The thermal emitters make the martian ship choose between BTR and BAV and are equipment hits.

Err... Todd... no one here knows about the thermal emitters idea yet. smile

Go to forum: Iron Stars

2,859 Reply by mj12games

(45 replies, posted in Iron Stars)

bobslaughter wrote:

Hmm, What if "Edison's Conquest of Mars" was a know-to-be sensationalized or exaggerated account. After all, there is "War and Peace" as compared to the Flashman novels, for example.

Well, it's worth looking in to -- I'll try to give the whole thing another read through this weekend. But there's really no way it's going to become canon in its entirety. The Martians should be a definite threat -- a "boogeyman" hanging over us as we squabble among ourselves.

Go to forum: Iron Stars

2,860 Reply by mj12games

(45 replies, posted in Iron Stars)

murtalianconfederacy wrote:

Well, I've got a few ideas that I came up with--see how you like 'em...:D

I like 'em all! But I do agree with wminsing in that Martians should not have FACs. Just never thought of them -- no Martian equivalent of Jackie Fisher. wink

That will be something they copy from us after the first encounters of the Second Invasion...

But they should have some things completely unknown to us-- after all, the only tech we've recovered has been from surface units (cylinders and walkers).

Go to forum: Iron Stars

2,861 Reply by mj12games

(6 replies, posted in Defiance)

tnjrp wrote:

As a completely and utterly off-topic aside, why do I suddenly have a space for an avatar in my postings?

'cause.

smile

Go to forum: Defiance

2,862 Reply by mj12games

(7 replies, posted in Iron Stars)

themattcurtis wrote:

This is why missiles are great against FACs.  No size penalties up to their 12" range cap, and you get a ton of them on the cheap.

It seems as tho rockets are being hailed as "FAC-stoppers"... does anyone think they are perhaps TOO effective as such?

Go to forum: Iron Stars

2,863 Reply by mj12games

(9 replies, posted in Iron Stars)

dave-the-lost wrote:

Hello all,

I have created a Frapper! map for Iron Stars players. Please add yourselves.

This seems a useful tool for finding opponents.

http://www.frappr.com/ironstars

Just bumping this in case Southern Front brought in new players...

Go to forum: Iron Stars

2,864 Reply by mj12games

(52 replies, posted in Defiance)

kevinsmith67206 wrote:

> Select "Defiance" under Our Games on the MJ-12 home page, and
> then on the subsequent screen look in the red box on the
> right side of the screen. There should be several selections,
> one of which will be Army Demos.

Or, you could just click on this link:

http://mj12games.com/defiance/armydemos.pdf

However, I believe the 40k conversion being referred to was in the Yahoo! group files section, but has long since disappeared.

> > I looked through the site and the links on the left of the front
> page go to a few demo rules and stats, but nothing more, and
> the catalogue page wants my money.

And what's wrong with that? You want to give us your money... you need to give us your money... you will give us your money...

smile

Go to forum: Defiance

2,865 Topic by mj12games

(45 replies, posted in Iron Stars)

John Voysey wrote:

> Is there any widely accepted 'designs' for Martian vessels?
> Specifically, for the period in which Iron Stars is taking place in?

Not exactly. There is "Edison's Conquest of Mars", which does contain (allegedly) the first space battle ever written... but other details within the book make it less than likely that I will consider it "canon".

Go to forum: Iron Stars

2,866 Reply by mj12games

(11 replies, posted in Iron Stars)

wminsing wrote:

Balkan League short history-

Nicely done!

Go to forum: Iron Stars

2,867 Reply by mj12games

(34 replies, posted in Iron Stars)

kevinsmith67206 wrote:

> I seriously doubt that you'd see any kind of restrictions in
> a tournament setting. I imagine Dan would handle an Iron
> Stars tournament in the same manner that his Starmada
> tournaments are handled. That being anything goes.

Perhaps. But then Starmada has never had a clear background behind it, and has always been intended as a generic game. Iron Stars is a tad different in those respects...

> All of this talk of "canon ships" is kind of amusing. The
> only thing canon about them is the fact that they're in the
> supplied setting. No more, no less.

Exactly! That's what canon means: "in the book". wink

Go to forum: Iron Stars

2,868 Reply by mj12games

(34 replies, posted in Iron Stars)

themattcurtis wrote:

I understand they're not official, and I don't think it's dissuading people form contributing their ships if we're talking about personal preferences.

That's just the point -- the tone of this discussion has often led me to wonder if people are going to want to go through the trouble of contributing.

Go to forum: Iron Stars

2,869 Reply by mj12games

(34 replies, posted in Iron Stars)

themattcurtis wrote:

All of these factions, or nearly all of them, are suddenly fielding BIG hybrid battleships/carriers with powerful guns (primary and secondary), rockets to take down FACs, and attack craft of their own.  As if these minor players have been taking notes the instant tactical innovations appear on the scene, and then commission ships to address every and all contingency.

I understand the concern, and again have to say that there's nothing wrong with players designing uber-dreadnoughts for the Cypriot navy if that's what interests them... but "officially" we're going to try and keep things a little under control.

At the same time, I disagree with the premise that minor players taking notes is somehow "unrealistic" -- this is exactly what happens. Someone takes the plunge on a new idea, tactic, or technology, and everyone else hops on the bandwagon.

Do you really think that, having seen what's going on in space, any new player is going to enter the race without FACs (for example), or at least a way to counteract the other players' FACs?

Go to forum: Iron Stars

2,870 Reply by mj12games

(34 replies, posted in Iron Stars)

frigatesfan wrote:

Really? Wow, that's nice. Hey, let's throw away all the nations and just play with generic ships!

Okay... I'm very close to locking out this thread. Everyone just take a step back and breathe. smile

For my part, I will say one more time for the record that (a) nothing is official until it's in print and (2) every effort will be made to ensure the "historical" fleets remain distinct from one another.

But the whole point of having construction rules is to allow players to mess around with different philosophies-- and what works for me may not work for you. Maybe I like generic fleets (it's worked before; see Peter Drake's Maximum Burn Starmada pages); maybe in my world the Congolese have an ether dreadnought or nine; or maybe not.

frigatesfan: murtalian was not dismissing your concern, but pointing out that the game will not be broken if you allow the Germans to have Fire Arrows, for example. And I agree -- if a strict, semi-historical basis is your wish, then stick with the published stuff; if not, build to your heart's content. But let others build to theirs as well...

You have to trust me that the ether-navy of the Grand Duchy of Fenwick won't make it in to the official history (or maybe it will... smile)

Go to forum: Iron Stars

2,871 Reply by mj12games

(13 replies, posted in Starmada)

nimrodd wrote:

When a lot of people talk about "cheaper", they are not referring to the Combat Rating, they are referring to the SU cost as being cheaper.  It is not until you hit Hull Size 20 (assuming all TLs equal 0) that shields are cheaper than PDS by SU cost.

This is true... but then, SUs are merely a convenience to keep things "realistic" -- they have no bearing on the game itself, unlike the Combat Rating.

So when I hear "cheaper" or "more expensive", I always think in terms of point cost.

Go to forum: Starmada

2,872 Reply by mj12games

(13 replies, posted in Iron Stars)

murtalianconfederacy wrote:

No...

The Georgios Averoff is worth 100 pts. The Guido is worth 90 points. Only one point outside the accepted 10% difference

Did you think I meant the Basileus Georgios? (183 pts)

oops.

I did.

:oops:

Go to forum: Iron Stars

2,873 Reply by mj12games

(4 replies, posted in Iron Stars)

themattcurtis wrote:

The game's gotta evolve, and I think to do that it needs new input.  So I'm gonna bow out.  I've had a blast, and if folks need help with future efforts, lemme know.  But I'm gonna steer clear of things from here on out, and I'm gonna keep the forum clear of my particular funk from now on.  Dan, if ya want to write something, send me a letter.  Ya can lay out the general idea and I'll try to spin it.   
smile

Matt-

Hope things start to settle down for you... but I understand the need to step away from time to time. For what it's worth, I haven't thought you were "out of line" in any way-- I just wanted to make sure we didn't give the impression that development of the game was limited to a small group of people, or that input was not needed or wanted; I'm trying to keep interest up and involvement at a maximum.

Anyway, as circumstances allow, please remain active on the forum, and I'll definitely be "calling"... big_smile

Go to forum: Iron Stars

2,874 Reply by mj12games

(34 replies, posted in Iron Stars)

wminsing wrote:

Well, afaik, the size creep tended towards the largest classes (battleships tripled or more in displacement over a couple of decades)

Historically, yes... but within the game, since there's a soft cap on hull sizes at 35, the natural tendency towards larger and more powerful units will likely take the largest toll on the bottom end of the scale.

I've been wondering exactly how to "officially" keep the navies distinct, and discourage everybody from having the largest possible ships in each type... but solutions evade me. Perhaps it's just a matter of continued diligence when putting together the official materials.

This Brody's Annual project may be more difficult than anticipated... big_smile

Go to forum: Iron Stars

2,875 Reply by mj12games

(13 replies, posted in Starmada)

jimbeau wrote:

you get better coverage and cheaper defense with shield 2 and pds, that's what I meant.

Again, I don't know what you mean by this.

Shields 2 with PDS blocks 67% of shots that come in (1, 2, 3, and 5), for a combined multiplier of x3 (x1.5 and x2); this is the same as shields 4, which also has a multiplier of x3.

What do you mean by "cheaper"? And what about "better coverage"? Looks the same to me...

Go to forum: Starmada