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It would not matter if fighters shot first. Statisticly speaking, 18 flights of Strong fighters (rolling 4 attack dice) can only do 8 damage to a ship with Shields3+. That is NOT formitable, that is not even significant, and the cost of these fighters is over 500. When attacking well shieldes ships, fighters are not very useful.
They Need Piercing! 
Agreed. Based on the game I played this afternoon, they are definitely too weak. The force I faced did not have a lot of AA fire, so the fighters got to attack for several turns, doing not much.
I won't be using fighters again. My CVs are going to the scrapyard...
I just finished another S:NE game. This time I took a 720 pt Carrier with Twenty flights of Strong Fighters as part of a 1400 fleet. My opponants had ships Strength 3+ shields on all of their ships. These Strong Fighters were very, very Ineffective; almost useless. After my opponants shot at the fighters, only 18 flights were left and they did not do much, only 7 hits. Then I did the math. Statisticly speaking, 18 flights of Strong fighters attacking a ship of Shields 3+ should only do 8 points of damage. I am amazed how semi-useless these Strong Fighters were.
I think that there needs to be a Piercing option for fighters, just as there was for fighters in S:AE. Otherwise, fighters in S:NE are simply Not Worth Their Cost against well-shielded (3+) ships. I am disappointed that the 720 point CV USS Hornet w/20 flights of Strong Fighters in the game I just played an hour ago was not even close to being worth 720 points. (this CV is in another post). Since my friends like shields 3+ on their ships, I won't be using fighters any more. My 1400 point force was soundly crushed. I presume that drones would be just as ineffective against ships with Shields3+.
All of my CVs & DDGs are going to be moth-balled...
What an eye-opener today's game was.
Long Range fighters did not need need a ship with Carrier. They cost more but were considered to be based on a nearby planet or to have their own hyperspace capability in the same way as Luke Skywalker's fighter as seen in the Starwars movie "The Empire Strikes Back"
These Long range fighters would be similiar to the P38 Lightnings that were land-based and attacked Japanese planes & ships far from their base.
I set the BAS at one also. For my naval-style ships, each turret or mount is a weapon, for example my Arizona design has FX3, FX3,AX3,AX3 for its main battery of 12 weapons that have Dx2. This battery represents the twelve 14" guns that the Pennsylvania, New Mexico, & Tennessee class BBs had.
There is a heavy AA battery that has less range, & has repeating.
For me, there are enough variety in the type of weapons that can be made in the S:NE. I like the simplicity of this new version, and the greater ease of play. All of my weapons on my Naval ships have Guided so I don't have to keep track of short, medium & long range. This way there is just One huge "medium" range from 1 to 18 for the 14" guns, 1 to 15 for the 5"guns, and 1 to 6 for the close range 40mm guns. It makes my ships easy for me to play.
I like it; my Compliments to the game designers. 8-)
:arrow: After playing several games, I realize that these large arcs for expensive weapons are too costly.
I have changed this design and will post the latest version in the B-Basin.
I have made rather powerful versions of Star-trek ships. My friends use them to batter my Naval-type ships and wanted long ranges for them. Here are two of them:
Federation CONSTITUTION-class CA (194)
ARMOR (none)
HULL [_][_][_][_] [_][_][_][_] [_][_][_][_]
THRUST [5][4][3][2][1] WEAPONS [_][1][2][3][4]
ECM [_][_][_][_][_] SHIELDS [4][5][5][6][6]
WEAPONS ARCS RANGE ATTACK DICE -4 -6 -8 -10
Large Phasers (Sct) [FX3][PH3][SH3] 6-12-18 6 4 3 2 2 1 1 1 0 0 0 0
Photon Torpedoes (Dx3/Prc) [FH] 6-12-18 2 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
And a Klingon Ship:
Klingon D 7 WARSHIP-class CA (194)
ARMOR (none)
HULL [_][_][_][_] [_][_][_][_] [_][_][_][_]
THRUST [5][4][3][2][1] WEAPONS [_][1][2][3][4]
ECM [_][_][_][_][_] SHIELDS [4][5][5][6][6]
WEAPONS ARCS RANGE ATTACK DICE -4 -6 -8 -10
Large Phasers (Sct) [FX] 6-12-18 3 2 2 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0
Disruptors (Dx2/Prc) [FH] 6-12-18 4 3 2 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0
The Large Phasers are what I call the Phaser 1 from SFB. These two are powerful and have ravaged my Naval Ships. We have a rematch today...
<LOL> Good point. I redesigned the CV Hornet and added strong to its fighters. The cost went up and I added one more hull to add the space needed. I plan to play it tomorrow when my friends and I game.
Will let everyone know how the battle works. The DNs have been redone also. And I made DDGs with six drones.
In the earlier versions of the game, there were Long Range Fighters that cost 10% more I think. Will these be introduced into S:NE? If so, what would the cost for a basic flight of these be?
Good point on the nine armor.
I like this and hope it can be added to the game as a slightly more advanced armor. My big ships have 25 armor on them and this would benefit them. ECM & Stealth do the same game with respect to game mechanics, but stealth is more expensive and cannot be reduced by damage. Perhaps this type of more advanced could be a little more expensive, but be an option. That would be great.
Hmmmm, what should we call it? Hardened armor, ferro-fibrous armor, Advanced Armor...:ugeek:
The ships that I design for personal use are spece versions of the large Dreadnoughts that onece ruled the seven seas. As a result their main weapons are in FX and AX mounts. They also have heavy armor, more armor than hull. They have no shields, no ECM, no stealth and are speed 4. I like the idea of these ships being heavily armored brutes capable of taking a pounding and firing all heavy weapons into either broadside arc. It works for me.
I have made some Federation & Klingon type ships for my friends to use, and for the Recon2012 gaming convention in Cocoa Beach next weekend. These ships have strength 3+ shields which enables them to deflect 2/3 of incoming hits. Until they get degraded by damage checks...
BTW, I will be running several S;NE games at this convention; it should be lots of fun.
The resort the con is being held in is on the beach. Temps should be in 80s, lots of sunshine.
Its Good to live in Florida... 8-)
This is less pronounced than before, but I still like it.
I note that for smaller amounts of armor, up to eleven armor boxes, there won't be a change. For example, the three armor-sections being 4-4-3 occurs now if you have 11 armor and 4-3-3 occurs if you have 10 armor, etc.
Now, for a dozen armor boxes and up, it changes... 8-)
Here is what the DryDock program gives me if I add Fast, Strong,Tough to the above USS Hornet design. The number of spaces available increases from 5 to 945:
NAME: USS HORNET
Stevens Ships YORKTOWN-class Standard CV (288)
ARMOR [_][_][_] [_][_] [_][_]
HULL [_][_][_][_][_]
[_][_][_][_] [_][_][_][_]
THRUST [5][4][3][2][1] WEAPONS [_][1][2][3][4]
ECM [_][_][_][_][_] SHIELDS [_][_][_][_][_]
Carrier (Fst/Str/Tgh) (20); Fire Control
WEAPONS ARCS RANGE ATTACK DICE -4 -6 -8 -10
5 Inch Strike Cannon (Acr/Gid/Rpt) [TR2][RT2] 5-10-15 2 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
40 Mm Strike Guns (Acr/Gid) [TT2][TT2] 2-4-6 2 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
:arrow: I guess there is something still amiss with the designer program & fighters, and probably drones. Not a problem.
I would like to play this CV on Saturday with fighters having these three abilities, if possible. Could a skilled person calculate how many of these 3-ability flights would fit on this ship with the same cost/SUs as 20 standard flights? I am guessing 13 to 15. I could print out the design and correct the number of flights with whiteout and make any other adjustments/corrections. I am not sure how to make this adjustment by hand. If there is not a way to do this, I can play this USS Hornet with 20 standard flights of fighters. I want to give my friends a suprise..."Tora,Tora,Tora"...<LOL>
I made some Federation type ships for my friends to use so I could introduce them to this Nova Edition. Here is the Federation BC:
NAME: These BCs are formitable...
Federation BATTLECRUISER-class Starship (346)
ARMOR
HULL [_][_][_][_][_]
[_][_] [_][_][_][_][_]
[_] [_][_][_][_][_]
[_]
THRUST [5][4][3][2][1] WEAPONS [_][1][2][3][4]
ECM [_][_][_][_][_] SHIELDS [3][4][5][6][6]
WEAPONS ARCS RANGE ATTACK DICE -4 -6 -8 -10
Large Phasers (Sct) [FX2][PH4][SH4] 6-12-18 8 6 4 3 2 1 1 1 1 0 0 0
Photon Torpedoes (Dx3/Prc) [FH] 6-12-18 3 2 2 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0
If everyone will recall, in S:AE, ships with shields Level One could Not have these reduced by Piercing +1,+2, or +3.
In this new Nova edition, shields "6" is like those S:AE level 1 shields, and is also not removable either.
This should not come as a shock, because it is exactly how the earlier versons worked...
I went back onto the DryDock and build a slightly reduced version of the CVs of the Yorktown class:
NAME: USS HORNET
Stevens Ships YORKTOWN-class Standard CV (635)
ARMOR [_][_][_] [_][_] [_][_]
HULL [_][_][_][_][_]
[_][_][_][_] [_][_][_][_]
THRUST [5][4][3][2][1] WEAPONS [_][1][2][3][4]
ECM [_][_][_][_][_] SHIELDS [_][_][_][_][_]
Carrier (20); Fire Control
WEAPONS ARCS RANGE ATTACK DICE -4 -6 -8 -10
5 Inch Strike Cannon (Acr/Gid/Rpt) [TR2][RT2] 5-10-15 2 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
40 Mm Strike Guns (Acr/Gid) [TT2][TT2] 2-4-6 2 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
I noticed that when I added Fst,Str,Tgh, the cost dropped to 170. And the number of extra spaces increased from 5 to over 800<LOL>, so I deleted the three fighter traits .
I can use this version of this CV. The cost seems more reasonable. But I would like to reduce the number of flights to 15 or 16 and add in those three traits for the fighters.
Lets ask those Questions:
Do I need those 25 Flights of Fighters? YES! <LOL>
Can I affort them? Hmmm I guess it depends on how much this CV, or one with fewer flights, costs. :?:
Makes sence that this CV should cost more. I wonder why the DryDock program under-pointed this so much.
Any ideas on what to do now with respect to designing a CV?
:idea: The {Steven's Fleet Admiralty} may need to slow down on building 400+ point DNs and focus more on CVs such the Yorktown class...
Thanks. Here is my first CV design, done on the DryDock. Fighters seem very inexpensive. Did I do this right?
NAME: USS HORNET
Stevens Ships YORKTOWN-class Standard CV (198)
ARMOR [_][_][_] [_][_] [_][_]
HULL [_][_][_][_][_]
[_][_][_][_] [_][_][_][_]
THRUST [5][4][3][2][1] WEAPONS [_][1][2][3][4]
ECM [_][_][_][_][_] SHIELDS [_][_][_][_][_]
Carrier (Fst/Str) (25); Fire Control
WEAPONS ARCS RANGE ATTACK DICE -4 -6 -8 -10
5 Inch Strike Cannon (Acr/Gid/Rpt) [TR2][RT2] 5-10-15 2 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
40 Mm Strike Guns (Acr/Gid) [TT2][TT2] 2-4-6 2 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
:arrow: If this is correctly costed, I can guarentee that any fleet I field will have one of these CVs...
:?: This may sound like a silly question, but exactly how do I add Drones (or fighters) to a design? I want to design some DDGs and am unsure how to add either of these to a ship design.
The HMS Valiant two posts up was soundly defeated today; not enough hull and Armor. I have redesigned it lowering the speed to 4 and deleting the 40mm Strike guns. All of the space saved has been used for Armor... The ship now has 28 armor. 8-)
Excellent.
All of my heavy ships have their mains shoot out to 18, their secondaries shoot out to 15, and a teryiary battery for close range AA that shoot out to only 6.
Here is HMS Valiant, which is typical of my DNs:
NAME: HMS VALIANT
Stevens Ships QUEEN ELIZABETH-class Standard Dreadnought (400)
ARMOR [_][_][_][_][_]
[_][_][_][_] [_][_][_][_]
HULL [_][_][_][_][_]
[_][_][_] [_][_][_][_][_]
[_][_] [_][_][_][_][_]
[_][_]
THRUST [5][4][3][2][1] WEAPONS [_][1][2][3][4]
ECM [_][_][_][_][_] SHIELDS [_][_][_][_][_]
Fire Control
WEAPONS ARCS RANGE ATTACK DICE -4 -6 -8 -10
15 Inch Strike Cannon (Acr/Gid) [FX2][AX2] 6-12-18 16 11 8 6 4 3 2 1 1 1 1 0
4.5 Inch Strike Cannon (Acr/Gid/Rpt) [TR1][RT3] 5-10-15 5 4 3 2 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0
40 Mm Strike Guns (Acr/Gid) [TT4][TT4][TT4][TT4] 2-4-6 4 3 2 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0
Thanks, that is what I thought.
That ship with Escort is gonna get pulverized first.
After a while it may be a bit difficult to get crews to serve on these small ships with Escort... 
The rules state that a hostile ship using its "Escort" ability can block the line of sight. Can the ship with Escort itself that is using this trait be targeted? That is, while a DE with Escort is protecting a CV by blocking the line of sight, can the DE itself be targeted? If so, are there any minuses to hit the DE?
I am thinking that the protecting DE can be fired on regularly, but want to ask to make sure.
Cheers.
The idea proposed by Vandervecken looks great and seems to be a compromise/combination of those who want all armor hit first and those who want it evenly divided into thirds. This is Very creative & resourseful. If the cost of the armor boxes needs to be raised slightly, that would fine. I like it . 8-)
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