126

(133 replies, posted in Starmada)

Blacklancer99 wrote:

I am firmly of the opinion that all building mechanics, no matter how thoughtfully designed and executed will be exploited by someone eventually. The whole point of designing ships to defeat your opponents isn't to make a balanced design that is fun to play and makes sense, it is to find the loopholes and killer combos that allow you to smite your friends with giggling glee. The exitement comes from building the best beast rather than playing. All of the above is why I typically will not play one-of-a-kind build off games unless there are many restrictions in place. They just aren't fun to me. I'm weird that way I guess. When I have played some campaigns we have used all kinds of hard caps on tech and things like range and they were pretty fun games.
Of course this is me on my soap-box, so I will get down now and let the discussion continue.
Cheers,
Erik

I agree with what you say.  The problem I guess i have is for our group to agree on the design limits is a big hassle.  Lots of arguments and people taking it personnally - and then that just motivates them to try to make even more broken combos that you didn't anticipate. 

-Tim

127

(127 replies, posted in Starmada)

The PS isn't working for me - its comping up as APS - is that the same?

-Tim

128

(10 replies, posted in Starmada)

Thanks this is great!

-Tim

129

(30 replies, posted in Starmada)

cricket wrote:
Marauder wrote:

So, is it legal to build an "escort" with ECM 5 and Stealth 5?  Sound annoying - is there an upper limit on ECM+Stealth?

Technically, no... there is no upper limit.

Isn't that a problem?  You can make your ships immune to enemy fighters with a combine score of 7 and that is also a serious problem for ships attacking.  If I look at most of the ships in the rulebook, unless they are a race that uses ECM, they will basically not be able to attack someone with a 7 shift.

If you want stealth and ECM to stack perhaps stealth should do something mechanically different - like add x hexs to the range between you?

-Tim

130

(133 replies, posted in Starmada)

I agree that's not exactly a broken ship, just highly annoying.  Sure you can defeat it, but you can also catch someone off guard with it and just hose them.  They certainly aren't what I would call "fun" ships.

IMHO there are two things that make it possible:

1) Tech - I understand wanting tech, but in my experience tech just leads to stupid glass cannon ships that make the game unfun.  If you actually had to spend the extra space evenly between defense, movement, weapons and systems it would be cool - but its not - I hate it.  Why have design constraints when you can just pick tech and then utterly ignore them?

2) Cost of range - I don't think it should be linear.  Seems to me the game is very balanced when dealing with weapon ranges of about 9 to 18 - outside of this it breaks down.  A range 3 weapon should not be 25% the cost of a range 12 weapon.  I also think that the extreme long ranges should have an additional premium.  If range 12 costs 1 then range 3 should be about 0.5 and Range 30 about 4.

Now most of this goes away if you just all build nice ships or have someone do up ships in a particular setting and use them, but if you play "lets kill each other" things like that get exploited.

-Tim

131

(61 replies, posted in Starmada)

cricket wrote:

No. One bit of errata that needs to be added: Dx2, Dx3, and Catastrophic weapons lose their abilities against fighters.

Really - wow, and still cost the same as doubling your BAS?

-Tim

132

(133 replies, posted in Starmada)

Ya, fun ships:



NAME:
Mean Guys GLASS CANNON-class FF  (85)
HULL    [_]    [_]    [_]
THRUST    [5][4][3][2][1]    WEAPONS    [_][1][2][3][4]
ECM    [_][_][_][_][_]    SHIELDS    [_][_][_][_][_]

WEAPONS    ARCS     RANGE    ATTACK DICE    -4         -6         -8    -10
Boom (Exp/Gid)    [FF]    1-2-3      452    320    226    160    113    80    57    40    28    20    14    10


Speaking of which, is there going to be a new "drake" notation?

But back on topic, this guy is TL+2 - he can one shot just about anything that isn't packing ECM 5, Stealth 5, but talk about vulnerable and with only one shot.  I guess you could go a bit cheaper and get that down to maybe 240 attack dice.

-Tim

133

(133 replies, posted in Starmada)

@Barking Monkey

Yes, that sounds like it would work... that is if you know what your opponent is bringing and counter with that!

There is still going to be a rock/paper/scissors component to Nova, but I think the extremes have been brought in much closer to the norm than from AE.

-Tim

134

(30 replies, posted in Starmada)

So, is it legal to build an "escort" with ECM 5 and Stealth 5?  Sound annoying - is there an upper limit on ECM+Stealth?

-Tim

135

(133 replies, posted in Starmada)

Well in AE the weapon arc was cheaper "G=FR" and you could also take slow and starship exclusive - so I think its come a long way!

136

(27 replies, posted in Starmada)

cricket wrote:

Is there a reason you couldn't just use "tough" fighters to simulate gunboats?

Its the weapon range that is the problem.  Tough is good for a very sturdy fighter (or maybe one with shields) or perhaps a very agile fighter.

I realize we are throwing a lot of stuff at you, in what is essentially a finished product that just needs a few i's dotted and t's crossed.  That's fair enough - but perhaps you can take all of this stuff as inspiration for Nova's first supplement?

-Tim

137

(7 replies, posted in Starmada)

madpax wrote:

Hmm, ok. It would be funny to see tractor unable to stop drones but able to reduce plasma.  wink

Marc

Just like it would be funny to damage a plasma with a photon torp.   I think the generic rules are quite good as is, and definitely any universe specific stuff can be built into a particular supplement.

-Tim

138

(27 replies, posted in Starmada)

A tiny bit, yes  :cry:

139

(127 replies, posted in Starmada)

Thanks!

140

(61 replies, posted in Starmada)

Okay then...

Traits may be used to supplement "relative power".


-Tim

141

(27 replies, posted in Starmada)

It would be very interesting if gunboats could be grouped in to flotillas of 3 or so - just sayin'  big_smile

-Tim

142

(127 replies, posted in Starmada)

Dan,

Can you add the customized firing arcs to the drydock?  I want to do a "swivel mount" type torp launcher that is HJIK.

-Tim

143

(55 replies, posted in Starmada)

Add a sentence on page 43 stating that ships must have a hull size of 3 or greater.

-Tim

144

(61 replies, posted in Starmada)

I understand BAS to be roughly equivalent to (#attacks) x (#relative power) of a single weapon.  Traits can be used in lieu of "relative power".  You then specify the arc of each bank and how many weapons are in it.  Ta dah!

-Tim

145

(61 replies, posted in Starmada)

@Underling - I agree with you - its just people will want to model weapons that are super huge and are not used agaisnt fighters - problem with starship exclusive is that it was too good a deal and for the most part you would never have used that type of weapon against a fighter in the first place - so the restriction was meaningless - in essense this is the same, but the discount is far less and justified by not totally ruling out attacking fighters with it.  You could also call this "Bad against fighters" and say its -1 to hit fighters (on top of the current -1) and price it at 0.95 or something - but I though having a +1 columns shift might be nice - makes a positive spin on the weapon.

@Cricket - I guess with rounding it is the same.  It could be 1.3, 1.35, 1.38 or whatever is appropriate to give a tiny little benefit.  You'd have to be careful with the discount though as people latch onto any savings they can.

Anyway I'm not advocating that this is an awesome trait or a must have.  Its just a suggestion if you want to re-implement "Starship Exclusive".  Instead of giving just a flat out discount and the caveat that you cannot attack fighters - a bonus to attack ships and a very minor discount on the price to reflect that they are not as good against fighters (or gunboats - should they ever exist).

-Tim

146

(29 replies, posted in Starmada)

Pretty slick.  I do like the "arcs" and the colour coding for the weapons.  I prefer the hull/armour layout in 3 separate sections though.

BTW, Dan, I really really like the new chart.  It removes the old problem of having to hit modifers push your to hit over 6+ - and it also eliminates any type of synergy that some traits had linked to the old accuracy stat.

Of course you know already know all of this...  smile

-Tim

147

(27 replies, posted in Starmada)

I like the idea of them being "carried" into battle.   In Star Fleet there were PFs that were towed by a mech link (a special tractor beam).  Now not saying we should model mech links, but essentially its being able to carry another ship for less space than it takes because its on the exterior of the ship.

Just be careful that gunboats are not getting the best of both worlds.  I know that one group (Warlords) implemented gunboats into Full Thrust and they ended up dumping them because they were too good. 

Oh ya, so these would also make the adaptation to SF even easier.  "interceptors" (the smaller ones) could be the 1 hull boats and the Fast patrol ships (PFs) could be the 2 hull variant.

-Tim

148

(61 replies, posted in Starmada)

Fair enough.  It is the simplest and its not unbalancing.

One last thought - if you don't want to sully those other traits you could add a new one:

"Starship Killer" - This weapon gets +1 column shift against ships (i.e. not fighters or drones or future things smaller than full ships).  Cost 1.4

-Less efficient vs. Fighters (so not likely to use it against them unless in a pinch)
-Very slight discount (root 2 being full price)

149

(30 replies, posted in Starmada)

Cool stuff here with the scouts guys.  Having Scouts do some sort of EPM also would synergize quite well with implementing Scouts from Star Fleet.


You know.... if your opponent has neither escorts or ECM - then well still your scout does nothing... not that its bad - but maybe it would be good to give it a few more options to minimize this.  How about an option for scouts to "use their scout ability" to:

- give a bonus to detect cloaked ships?
- reduce penalty to fire through a dust cloud?
- reduce penalty to fire at a ship with stealth (or is that the same as EPM?)
- etc

-Tim

150

(57 replies, posted in Starmada)

cricket wrote:

I'm open to playtest reports if people want to start trying this idea out...

Can you consolidate something from our ideas and put a point value on it? 

Oh, and make sure to include my favourite Admiral Ackbar quote:

"We've got to give those fighters more time, concentrate all fire on that Super Star Destroyer"

http://www.squidoo.com/admiral-ackbar