Thinking about the old Berserker boardgame still gives me the shudders.  Easily one of the most unbalanced games ever published, although Steve Jackson managed to patch it pretty successfully in a Space Gamer article.  I see Flying Buffalo is still selling it on their web site, down to $7.00 or so these days, even with "revised" rules.  They'll also sell you a counter sheet package deal for doing the "Stone Place" scenario...requires several hundred ships, of course.

Come to think of it, those counter sheets might actually be kind of handy for Starmada, if you play with counters and don't like making your own.

Your Starmada game mechanics sound about right for the artillery style C-Plus guns, but IIRC Saberhagen had them showing up as primary-battery weapons on heavy human ships in later years, long after the Stone Place fight.

Rich

Looks good.  Do we have an ETA yet?

Rich

GZG ships and fighters are almost identical in scale to Brigade's stuff, although there is some variation between fleets and even generations of fleets...the new ESU ships are noticeably bigger, class-for-class, than the old ESU line, for ex.

Cold Navy minis are *much* larger than equivalent classes in FT.  A CN frigate makes an decent destroyer or heavy destroyer in FT terms, and their battleships are fair-sized superdreadnoughts.

A Call to Arms ships also tend to be bigger, on average, than FT ships, although only the very biggest ships (Bin'Tak dread, supercarrier) are actually larger than the big FT capital ships.

In general, I find GZG offers the best range of sizes and ship variety on the market, although Brigade pretty close as well.  ACTA and CN ships are bigger on average, but they lack the really small sculpts that would make their big models look impressive...when everything is big, nothing stands out real well.

That's my two cents, anyway.

Rich

Very nice...and indeed, lots of guns.  So where's the stats? 

Rich

I don't think I could identify a real average...I've run ships (flocks of ships) that run as low as single-digit CRs and ones that were up in the 3000 point range myself.  The more expensive stuff was generally higher-tech, but I usually default to tech-0 just to save on math.

I do notice that my fleet actions tend to involve more cheap ships, while small squadron fights use more costly, elaborate designs.  Haven't really tried much one-on-one duelling with Starmada (SFB is my preference for that), but I would think you'd want complex vessels for that format, with lots of special equipment, odd weapons, etc.

One thing Starmada does do *very* well is "OGRE in space" gaming, where one side has a single supership and the other a flock of popcorn.  Given equal CRs, these games are generally quite well balanced...a good sign that the CR system is working properly, in my book.

Rich

I generally use just the size-based mods, but I do feel they're a little bit too generous to smaller ships.

I like that.  Definitely needs to go into the next edition as an option, if you ask me.

Rich

You can sort of achieve the same effect by just wasting space as well (nothing says you have to fill your hull) but the resulting ships tend to be kind of slow, and they get their shields cheaper.  Small-but-tough is a little harder...although you can play games with tech levels there as well, you can't just buy extra hull damage points.

It's a minor problem, really.

Rich

While I'll be the first to agree that Starmada has an excellent ship construction system, your argument that it's superior to Full Thrust would be a lot more effective if you weren't talking about A, B, and C batteries, which pretty much went out of style with the release of the first FT Fleet Book half a decade ago.  Not that I'm arguing your contention that FT's design system is more limiting in many ways than Starmada's...it's just that it makes you sound like someone who looked at the (badly outdated and overdue to be replaced) core FT rules way back when and haven't followed it since.

That may be the case, for all I know...but I play both Starmada and FT pretty regularly, and I enjoy both.  IMO Starmada has faster gameplay, better design rules, and the point system is much better balanced, while FT (still) has a larger player base, a better vector movement system (easily cribbed for use in Starmada, thankfully), and less predictable damage effects.  GZG also makes an incredible range of spaceship minis, which makes me very happy...and they work fine in both FT and Starmada (and GOBS, and Battleshift, and ASFoS, and Starfire...).

Rich

Steve:  Glad to hear it.  Any ETA on the next batch of IS minis?  Know you've been busy with Celtos...

Xombe:  I'm not sure about the update.pdf, but Twilight Imperium Starmada is a crossover book that lets you use the races from Starmada in the second edition of Fantasy Flight Games' Twilight Imperium game.  Not bad, but a little dated these days, since TI 3rd edition is out now.

Rich

A Starmada/Defiance genre book would be very cool...and you wouldn't have to convince another company to play ball with you, either.  You might even be able to convince Tony at Brigade to sculpt some compatible ship minis for you, eh?

Rich