1 Reply by chaos_engineer

(15 replies, posted in Starmada)

jygro wrote:

As someone has already said, I would also recommend screens (take shields x 4 for the number of shield factors), but I would fudge the damage system to state that ALL damage is done to the shield rating on that hexside before anything is rolled on the damage chart (most SFB games, the shields had to be completely 'down' before damage was assigned to systems). At that point any 'shield hits' destroy a shield generator. At the end of the turn, all ships recover a number of shield factors equal to 1/2 their current shield rating (round up).

that is a clever idea. it reminds me of the way shields worked in FASA's STSTCS. and i recall Dan suggesting something similar, except with the screens losing one point every time they're hit. the only question is: what point cost would you give them?

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2 Reply by chaos_engineer

(15 replies, posted in Starmada)

GamingGlen wrote:

I disagree with the weapon ranges.  That makes me suspect everything else.

In SFB, at range 30, a fleet of ships armed with Phaser-1s/Phaser-2s can cripple a ship (I've been there, had a D7 crippled by a Hydran fleet).

except that at range 30 phasers have only a 2 in 6 chance of hitting, so if you ratchet up the range you'll also have to make the to-hit correspondingly higher, e.g., 5+. your phasers are going to have a tough time hitting anything.

GamingGlen wrote:

Me thinks someone really likes Plasma weapons.  Plasma weapons are short ranged weapons, at longer ranges ships just run away from them.

hence the range based damage. but i'll review those stats more closely.

GamingGlen wrote:

Phaser-1s should be the longest ranged weapons in the conversion.  As for Phaser-IVs, they're main strength is in their short-ranged punch.

actually at range 30 phaser IV's have a better chance to hit than phaser I's and do more damage. besides, no stats for phaser IV's have even been posted! however, here's what i came up with a few days ago:

Type IV Heavy Phaser
Range: 18 To-Hit: 3+ ROF: 1 PEN: 1 DMG: 2

GamingGlen wrote:

Decide an effective range for weapons in SFB, then halve it.

that's not the approach i'm taking at all. instead, look at the to-hit probabilities at the various ranges and match them to the SX to-hit numbers. Phaser I's have a 50% of hitting at range 9-15. that directly translates to range 15 and to-hit 4+. however, to make phasers a distinctively accurate weapon, they're given to-hit 3+ range 12.

GamingGlen wrote:

Ranged-based damage is a good option on most, except for the Photon Torpedo.

as i mentioned in a previous post, the problem with giving all the weapons ranged based damage is that then they all start to look the same.

GamingGlen wrote:

Range-based ToHit should apply to Disruptors and Photon Torpedoes, with Disruptors having a base damage of 2 and Photon Torpedoes have a base damage of 3.  Hellbores might have the Halve Shields option, since that seems to be the only anti-shield option for weapons at the moment.

Plasmas should be treated as a special drone type.  One problem with adding more seeking weapons is the time it adds to the play time.

those ideas are worth exploring. however, since Photon Torpedoes already do Extra Hull Damage increasing them to Dam 3 seems like over-kill to me.

GamingGlen wrote:

As for hulls, I think those sizes are a bit low.

i already commented on that in an earlier post. if you use the 2.5 multiplier you get the following values:

DD Hull 8; CA Hull 10; DN Hull 12; BB Hull 18

that's about as high as you can get and still keep under hull 20.

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3 Reply by chaos_engineer

(15 replies, posted in Starmada)

Ironvein wrote:

Well the only bugaboo I can think of is that in SFB the weapons damage trickled off apreciably with range. Only drones, Photons and a few other weapons carried consitent damage to the target.
  If I were to try to convert the weapons over I'd probably lean towards giving most of the standard weapons (phasers, disruptors, fusion guns, etc) range based damage.

the problem with doing that is then all the weapons start to look the same. instead, range based dam is reserved for plasma weapons since that's their most distinctive attribute.

Ironvein wrote:

Now when you can come up with a conversion for ablative shields in Starmada to represent SFB types, I'd be very interested to see'em.

not going to happen. using either Screens or Directional Sheilding are the two best options.

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4 Reply by chaos_engineer

(15 replies, posted in Starmada)

RiflemanIII wrote:

The counter I offer is that the power of Trek Sips actually seems to vary wildly from episode to episode.

that's certainly true. and the real goal is to convert SFB. i think Rory's weapons stats approximate the SFB originals very closely. the plasma weapons are something of a judgement call but, imo, still on the mark.

This opens a bit of a question for me, since I'm doing a set of Freespace 2 conversions: should mine be in-line with the already-converted ships as well?

it'd be nice if they did but i wouldn't worry too much about it.

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5 Reply by chaos_engineer

(15 replies, posted in Starmada)

it'd definitely be nice to keep the SFB conversions on a par with other SX ships, especially the B5 write-ups.

the only drawback i can see to maxing out the weapon ranges is that ship speed and maneuvers become less important since you can pretty much blast anything from anywhere on the table. with shorter ranges smaller, faster ships have more of a role in the fight. but Trek ships are powerful, so longer ranges might be more appropriate.

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6 Reply by chaos_engineer

(15 replies, posted in Starmada)

the next step is a Master Weapons Chart. here's a basic one based on Rory Hinnen's conversions.

Master Weapons Chart:

Type I Offensive Phaser
Range: 12 To-Hit: 3+ ROF: 1 PEN: 1 DMG: 1

Type II Offensive/Defensive Phaser
Range: 6 To-Hit: 3+ ROF: 1 PEN: 1 DMG: 1

Type III Defensive Phaser
Range: 3 To-Hit: 3+ ROF: 1 PEN: 1 DMG: 1

Photon Torpedo
Range: 6 To-Hit: 4+ ROF: 1 PEN: 1 DMG: 2 Special: Extra Hull Damage

Disruptor
Range: 9 To-Hit: 4+ ROF: 1 PEN: 1 DMG: 2 Special: Extra Hull Damage

Plasma Torpedo
Range: 18 To-Hit: 4+ ROF: 1 PEN: 2 DMG: 2 Special: Ramge-Based DMG

Plasma Torpedo (F)
Range: 6 To-Hit: 3+ ROF: 1 PEN: 1 DMG: 1 Special: Extra Hull Damage

Plasma Bolt
Range: 12 To-Hit: 3+ ROF: 1 PEN: 1 DMG: 1 Special: Ramge-Based DMG

Rory's ship write-ups have hull values closer to the results produced by using the 2.5 hull multiplier. bigger hull values probably better simulate the durability of SFB ships. maybe i shouldn't have reduced it.

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7 Topic by chaos_engineer

(15 replies, posted in Starmada)

for all you SFB captains out there here are some formula i've worked out for converting the basic ship elements -- hull, engines, and shields -- from SFB to SX.

(sqrt of Hull Boxes) x 2 = Hull (round to nearest whole)

sqrt of (75 - [Impulse Boxes + Warp Boxes]) = Engines (round to nearest whole)

sqrt of (Shield #1 Boxes/2.5) = Shield (round up; min. 1, max. 5)

this is all very much back-of-the-envelope stuff but it seems to produce playable results. for example, here are the stats for a few basic Federation ships:

DD Hull 6; Engines 7; Shields 3
CA Hull 8; Engines 6; Shields 4
DN Hull 10; Engines 5; Shields 4
BB Hull 14; Engines 3; Shields 5

whadda ya think?

P.S.  i'm no math boy, so if there's a more elegant way to preform these calculations, please post it.  :wink:

Edited to reduce hull multiplier from 2.5 to 2; examples adjusted to reflect change.

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8 Topic by chaos_engineer

(0 replies, posted in Discussion)

given the recent Trek write ups, i thought folks might enjoy the Starship Exeter fan flick. it's a TOS series involving the voyages of the Constitution class ship Exeter and her crew. the acting leaves something to be desired, but the directing and production values are all up to snuff. worth a watch.

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9 Reply by chaos_engineer

(8 replies, posted in Starmada)

bekosh wrote:

I have a conversion of the Earth-Romulan War era ships and some scenarios based off of the history. Thought you might enjoy them.

excellent stuff! every time i browsed that sight i'd think "these would make great Starmada ships". nice to see them actually written up.

btw, have you told Okazaki about the write up? he might even give it a shout out on his site.

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10 Reply by chaos_engineer

(67 replies, posted in Starmada)

Saedor wrote:

In Star Trek shields have much more defensive power than Starmada shields do. To compensate for this I'm thinking of reducing weapon power.

another option you might consider is using Screens instead of strait Shields.

but i wouldn't stick too close the show. in Changeling not only are they attacked at warp speed, but a hit that's the "equivalent of 90 of our photon torpedoes" only reduces their shields by 20%.  those are some shields!

it takes a lot of fudging to get ST (especially TOS) to work as a wargame and/or rpg.   :wink:

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11 Reply by chaos_engineer

(67 replies, posted in Starmada)

wow! fantstic job. and i appreciate that it's a pdf, because i use Open Office and it can get flaky with Excel files.

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12 Reply by chaos_engineer

(67 replies, posted in Starmada)

Saedor wrote:

Speaking of which... I'm also tinkering with an alternate momentum-based movement system.

what, no Turn Modes and HETs? smile 

the momentum rules from Renegade Legion: Interceptor are really good if you're using a hex map -- which you're not.

and in addition to Beowulf's suggestion, you might want to check out Mark Langsdorf's excellent Real Thrust rules.

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13 Reply by chaos_engineer

(67 replies, posted in Starmada)

Saedor wrote:

Currently my plasma torpedoes are increased PEN, range-based DMG weapons, as follows;

TYPE    ROF    PEN    DMG    Special Attributes
Type-R    1    1    3    Increased PEN, Range Based DMG
Type-G    1    1    2    Increased PEN, Range Based DMG
Type-F    1    1    1    Increased PEN, Range Based DMG

that's similar to what Rory did in his SFB conversions, although he also made them expenable. forex, the Warbird's:

Range...To-Hit...ROF...PEN...DMG........Special Attributes
18..........4+........1.......2.......2.............Range-Based DMG
Expendable? Yes...8

Saedor wrote:

Yes, I'll post them when I get them done. smile

looking forward to them.

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14 Reply by chaos_engineer

(67 replies, posted in Starmada)

Saedor wrote:

I'm working on Star Trek TOS ships for Starmada, based loosely on Star Fleet Battles designs.

sounds cool. btw, i think there are some SFB-based write ups in the yahoo! files section. just a few basic ships, iirc.

*snip*

Saedor wrote:

Any comments?

looks promising.

i have a suggestion for the Romulan plasma weapon (although i have no idea what the cost should be).  treat it as a Spinal Mount, with the following exceptions.
a) the DMG is reduced by one for each hex after the first; i.e., -2 at three hexes, -4 at five hexes, etc.
b) the weapon targets all ships in the firing arc.

do you think that would work?

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15 Reply by chaos_engineer

(7 replies, posted in Starmada)

hundvig wrote:

I'd love to know what the errata is, I've got the first version and I've never seen the Berserker win in a dozen games.

once i get my scanner working again i'll e-mail you a copy of the errata, although just giving the humans fewer ships to begin with would probably solve that problem.

hundvig wrote:

There's also the fact that the basic game is rather obviously derived from Ogre, which is a sore point for a lot of people.  And especially painful since Ogre's balance between different types of units is so good, while Berserker is utterly dominated by C-Plus Guns.

Ogre is definitely a better game. i just think that while Berserker may not be first rate, it also isn't "teh suxxor". smile

as for doing a berserker in SX, the best i've come up with is something like the way SFB does the Planet Killer. by that i mean giving it a few hundred hit-points, a shield rating, several 1/1/1 weapons per hexside, and rolling 2d6 on a hit location chart for damage. not entirely satisfying, but i haven't been able to come up with a better way to do it yet. any ideas?

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16 Topic by chaos_engineer

(5 replies, posted in Discussion)

if you haven't seen it yet, you may want to check out the free fan flick Star Wreck: In the Pirkinning. it's a parody film with surprisingly good SFX made by some Finnish fans of Star Trek and Babylon 5 and it's freakin' hilarious. plus it makes me want to fight a Trek vs. B5 Starmada battle. smile

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17 Reply by chaos_engineer

(7 replies, posted in Starmada)

hundvig wrote:

Thinking about the old Berserker boardgame still gives me the shudders.

i'm really surprised at the degree of negativity this game evokes, especially over on sites like Boardgame Geek. my copy included an errata sheet and plays fine. imho, it's not as bad as some people make it out to be. it's sure not as bad as some of the crap games SPI published.

hundvig wrote:

I see Flying Buffalo is still selling it on their web site, down to $7.00 or so these days, even with "revised" rules.

that could be because the map is screwed up. a printer error resulted in a misprinted map, which was why the rules had to be fixed.

hundvig wrote:

Your Starmada game mechanics sound about right for the artillery style C-Plus guns, but IIRC Saberhagen had them showing up as primary-battery weapons on heavy human ships in later years, long after the Stone Place fight.

true enough, and when Harry Silver decided to keep that concealed one the Space Force equipped his ship with he let himself in for more than a little trouble. smile

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18 Reply by chaos_engineer

(7 replies, posted in Starmada)

cricket wrote:

In addition, I think a normal to-hit roll of 3+ is appropriate during that initial phase... once the projectile starts "skipping" I'd still make it an auto-hit if it appears in a hex with a valid target.

it's funny you should say that, because in the Berserker boardgame c-plus guns do score auto-hits if they land in an occupied hex. i just wasn't sure that was consistant with the SX mechanics...but if you say so, it must be OK! :wink:

cricket wrote:

Therefore, the real point cost value should be:

(MPs + 30) x 3

sounds good to me. now if i could just figure out how to do a berserker...let's see, a 65km metal sphere is Hull...yikes!

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19 Topic by chaos_engineer

(7 replies, posted in Starmada)

this is adapted from Flying Buffalo's Berserker boardgame, which is based on Fred Saberhagen's books. 

C-plus guns

    C-plus guns are weapons that launch a large chunk of metal containing a C-plus (i.e., hyperdrive) drive engine. After traveling 3 hexes from the platform that has launched it, the C-plus drive engine activates and the metal begins to skip in and out of relativistic space-time like a stone skipping across a lake surface.
    A C-plus projectile must travel in a straight line along a row of hexes. After the C-plus projectile travels the initial 3 hexes, roll one die and divide the result by 2 (round up). The projectile will then move that many more hexes (i.e., 1-3) in relativistic space-time before entering hyperspace and skipping two hexes. The projectile then re-enters relativistic space-time for one hex only and then skips two more hexes. This pattern continues until the projectile hits something (see below) or exits the map.
    Anything in a hex where the C-plus projectile is in relativistic space-time is considered a target and can be hit. A C-plus projectile has a to-hit of 3+, ROF and PEN values of 1, and DMG as follows: If the projectile has not yet made its first C-plus jump, its DMG value is equal to the number of hexes it has traveled, including the hex the target is in. Once the C-plus projectile begins to skip in and out of relativistic space-time it has a DMG value of 10.
    C-plus projectiles will not destroy each other if they occupy the same hex. Once a C-plus projectile hits a target, the projectile is destroyed. If there are multiple targets in a hex, randomly determine which one the projectile attacks.

Cost: [provisionally, as Spinal Mount]
   
notes:
these are intended to be mounted on a dedicated platform with Engines 2, Hull ~4, Sheilds ~3, and no other armament. the idea is to use them against targets of Hull 14+. basically a big space cannon for blasting space fortresses or super-battleships. they are subject to Q hits.

so, what cost would you assign them? and would you let them in your game?

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20 Reply by chaos_engineer

(3 replies, posted in Starmada)

hey, i'm just glad someones still working on them at all. i'd pitch in but i don't have any of the B5 Wars/CtA books.

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21 Reply by chaos_engineer

(1 replies, posted in Starmada)

nice work and much appreciated. looking forward to the next batch.

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22 Reply by chaos_engineer

(12 replies, posted in Game Design)

Go0gleplex wrote:

Renegade Legions: Interceptor was pretty great for vector movement and squadron level play.  It's a specific dogfight in space game and accomodates corvettes as well.  The construction rules for it are solid IMO and I absolutely LOVED the wiring diagram systems damage... :twisted:  Especially when causing it....

that is a good game, especially the inertia rules, but having large ships take up two hexes is a clunky mechanic, imo. btw, you can download the 2nd edition from Kannik's site, but they dropped the damage flowchart.  sad

for spacefighter games of that scale there's also Jamie Borg's freeware MechASsemble rules. technically it's a rpg supplement for designing vehicles, but it uses the same engine as Firefly Games' products, so it easily converts to tabletop play. the design rules are a bit more abstract (and versitile), but can easily model RL-type ships or similar and covers dogfighting well. just add the RL inertia rules and you're set. smile

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23 Reply by chaos_engineer

(12 replies, posted in Game Design)

i'd like to see one based on the Starmada engine. with optional rules for (intentionally unrealistic) airplane style manuevers. and aces with special abilities like the ones in Lightning Strike would be a nice touch, too.

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