1 Reply by gambler

(5 replies, posted in Starmada)

I still play Star Fleet Battles.  smile  But I do like Starmada (just haven't played it in awhile).  When Klingon Armada came out I played a couple of test scenarios, and if you want a major difference between the game and SFB, one firing sequence that happened should be nicely illustrative.

A Federation Heavy Cruiser took out a Klingon F5 (within the context of a larger fleet battle).  Ok, so in SFB a Federation Heavy Cruiser could take out a Klingon F5 with an alpha strike pretty easily.  In Klingon Armada, the Federation CA fired ONE overloaded photon torpedo at the Klingon F5, and due to the best sequence of die rolls possible, blew it up.

I like the Starmada version of the Star Fleet Universe, but it does feel incredibly different.  I have yet to get the hang of maneuvering as most battles seem to end on the approach itself rather than continuing beyond  the first battle pass.  What I'll try next time will be to use Klingon arcs and speed to try to simply stay out of overload range and ping from a distance, but it's easier said than done...

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2 Reply by gambler

(20 replies, posted in Starmada)

My comments were mainly designed to answer the initial request for information on fighter operations.  Yes, most of the specific ways of doing things will not be seen in Starmada, but so far Cricket has shown a very good ability to still give the feel of the SFB weapons, because he took the way that they worked in SFB and translated it to Starmada.  Plasma for instance looks completely counterintuitive on first looking at the way they're done in Starmada, and yet work very nicely.  So, I felt it important to give the basic characteristics of fighters in SFB, as was asked, and let Cricket determine how to use that, especially since a lot of people were answering based on earlier editions of the game and with obvious errors in their comments.  I assumed that the request for information based on how fighters operated wanted accurate information, so attempted to provide it.

Specific notes:
Yes, ships can use ECCM to counter the fighter small target modifier.  That reduces their energy to do other things, so the small target modifier is not just 'a wash', even if the ships counter it.  And since fighter flights can be lent ECM (by an EW fighter, and their carrier) they can then 'counter' the ECCM on firing ships.  Yes, all of that would be abstracted into Starmada, but it's still potentially important in balancing them.

Reloading, I agree on.  Probably unlikely to reload in Starmada, but it wouldn't be impossible to have occur.  Therefore, again, I just provided how it was done in SFB.

Taking damage: Yup, probably irrelevant.  But an important part of how they operate in SFB, so figured I'd provide the info.  Cricket's shown he can use items in SFB that appear to be irrelevant or difficult to do in Starmada, quite elegantly.

Speed: Well, they can still be compared to some extent because you know that usually ships won't be going faster than the speed at which they couldn't turn.  This is, of course, different for each ship in Starmada, but seems to break down to about 5-7 on average, which could be used for comparison.  So, one way of dealing with fighters and booster packs is set speeds around 3-4 (with the normal maneuverability - in other words, change direction any time, no facing).  And on any turn they can turn on their packs, but if they take damage that turn they take twice as much as they would have.


madpax wrote:

s me. Note that what I said was from foggy

gambler wrote:

I'm pretty sure that the earlier comment about being able to fire on fighters with no penalties is incorrect.  I forget the range break, but at a certain range fighters get small target modifiers: +2 ECM to direct fire weapons targeted against them (+1 to the die roll essentially) and at an even greater range +4 ECM (+2 to the die roll).  I don't know the range breaks off the top of my head.

It seems that was me. Note that my comments came from old and foggy souvenirs. I don't remember fighter benefiting from ECM as being small targets, but, what I remember is that ships could negate that by using ECCM, something that they can't do in Starmada, unless they already have the anti-fighter or Fire control traits.

1. In general, once they've used weapons other than phasers, they have to return to their ship to reload.  The phasers are still fully functional though, I believe.

In a Starmada game, it seems there is not enough 'real' time to resupply fighters. Also, my games are so quick that you don't have 'game' time as well to resupply. Yesterday, we did two games, using 2400 in all (a breakout scenario played twice), and each ended very quicly, after 4 to 6 turns.

2. When they take 2/3 of their damage, they lose half their speed and have only a Phaser 3 (forward arc?) left as weaponry.

Irrelevant in Starmada.

3. They're usually slower than the starships (they can move about half as fast as a ship's max speed), unless they use warp booster packs which double their speed but also doubles the damage they take.

Starmada can't compare with FC when talking about speed. In FC, ships can move the speed they want with relatively low restrictions, but are limited to a fixed value, either the general max sped, either their energy. In Starmada, you can move at any speed, but their will have big restrictions.  Fighters, on the other hand, have a fixed value, in FC or in Starmada. I don't know what will be decided, but I feel that iSFU fighters should be treated normally in Starmada.

Marc

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3 Reply by gambler

(20 replies, posted in Starmada)

I'm pretty sure that the earlier comment about being able to fire on fighters with no penalties is incorrect.  I forget the range break, but at a certain range fighters get small target modifiers: +2 ECM to direct fire weapons targeted against them (+1 to the die roll essentially) and at an even greater range +4 ECM (+2 to the die roll).  I don't know the range breaks off the top of my head.

As far as carrier escorts and aegis goes, just give them a few more weapons with "Anti-fighter' characteristics.

Here's what I think I remember of fighters, not having used them too much:

1. In general, once they've used weapons other than phasers, they have to return to their ship to reload.  The phasers are still fully functional though, I believe.
2. When they take 2/3 of their damage, they lose half their speed and have only a Phaser 3 (forward arc?) left as weaponry.
3. They're usually slower than the starships (they can move about half as fast as a ship's max speed), unless they use warp booster packs which double their speed but also doubles the damage they take.

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4 Topic by gambler

(6 replies, posted in Starmada)

Ok, I understand that Plasma is a Seeker, and I know how Seekers work, but some important data seems to be missing:

1) What is the 'Attack Value' for the torpedoes shown on page 34?  Is this the same as 'Accuracy'?

2) Are the other values (Impact and Damage) the same as the Plasma Bolt lines on the ship cards?

Thanks

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5 Reply by gambler

(7 replies, posted in Starmada)

I still prefer SFB as my game of choice in the SFU, but nothing will beat Starmada for massive battles in the SFU. smile

I do like Starmada a lot, great system.

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6 Reply by gambler

(7 replies, posted in Starmada)

Your post actually convinced me to give the game a shot (I've always planned to, just never found the time).  So I tested it solitaire and had a lot of fun.

The Feds slaughtered the Klingons.  I believe it was:
Feds: DNG, BCJ, CC
Klingons: D7C, D7, D6, 2xF5, E4

The one big mistake I made was forgetting I intended to have 2 F5's in the battle, only had 1 until Turn 4!  It only missed one firing opportunity and I also realized that I hadn't fired the GHI arc phasers from one of the Fed ships, so it probably evened out.

The second big mistake from the Klingon's point of view was missing with almost every weapon on the first turn (ie, missing the accuracy rolls.. never even got to most of the impact rolls).

Lessons learned:
Ranges are a bit expanded.  I think this is what you were getting at.  The Klingons coasted way too close and saw their ships get shredded by the Phaser 1's and Photons.  But I also didn't use the drones well (or at all until after the first exchange of fire).  Looking back, I probably would have launched as much as possible on Turn 1 or 2, moved fast enough to stay close to the drone wave and launch another wave the turn before I expected direct fire weapons: hoping to force the Feds to turn off, or else use most of their weapons on the drones on the first battle pass.

Favorite moment was when the E4, down to 1 hull and no shields, but with full engines and weapons, timed its movement to end up 1 hex in front of the slightly wounded Fed command cruiser.  It actually did nice damage and survived the CC's weapons (4 hits, no hull) that were fired at it, leaving it up to the Fed DNG to take it out.  Another 'wow' moment was one Fed overloaded torpedo taking out an F5 (all 5 damage hit the hull).

It has a good SFU feel to it, but will definitely require unlearning assumptions from Star Fleet Battles.

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7 Reply by gambler

(5 replies, posted in Starmada)

Quick question... The SFU version of faceted shielding in Klingon Armada says that on a 1 or a 2, the target player may choose which shield loses points based on the loss in shield points and on a 3-6 the target player has to lose points on the 'facing shield'.

I assume that if that facing shield has no remaining shield boxes that any further losses go to whichever shield facet the target ship's player wants?

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8 Reply by gambler

(7 replies, posted in Starmada)

The second game sounded like a lot of fun.  I'm going to have to break out my copy of Klingon Armada to try out soon.

With regards to this comment:

"At short range, a fed CA can litterally cut down in two a similar ship. I feel that's much too  powerful for my taste."

Sounds like SFB to me.  A Klingon D7 that's at Range 1 to a relatively undamaged Fed CA is pretty much toast.

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9 Reply by gambler

(9 replies, posted in Starmada)

I would also note that Stellar Conquest + Starmada would be ideal with a referee, though I've been thinking about 'detection' and 'dummy' fleets for straight 2-4 player games.  IF anyone would like to test the concept, I might be up for being the referee of a test session, say within the next month or two.

There are few main 'sticking points' to mesh the two, beyond determining how production points should map to Starmada's point systems:

1. How to handle planets.  Starmada doesn't have a ground assault element, but perhaps simply creating a 'ground assault' module to install on Starmada ships would work.  Then use the Stellar Conquest ground combat system (I don't recall what it is off the top of my head smile ) if any of the ground assault ships survive the battle.

2. Refits... This adds an additional wrench into the ship development, prototype concepts mentioned previously.  Adding or replacing some systems should be relatively straightforward.  For weapons I tend to think that any weapon type could be replaced by any other type as long as its space requirement is within a certain percentage and the arcs are the same.  Again, a prototype of the refit would have to be made first.  The normal production cost to refit an already constructed ship would probably be something like cost of the unit being installed * 2.0. 

As a note, I have a vague idea that something like the B10's development history in Star Fleet Battles could be easily simulated here... A huge ship might not be finished in one production turn, so it could be refitted while it's being built, upping the cost further until finally someone says 'enough already, finish the thing and get it into battle... This might be too complicated to deal with at first though, as the specific items on the ship would have to be indicated rather than just... 'Ship costs 200 production points to fully build, I can only put in 50 a turn...' which is much simpler. smile )

3. How to handle various types of non-weapon tech improvements/systems.

4. Min/Maxing... In other words, given a certain overall tech level and a starting pool of production points to research and build an initial fleet (tradeoffs here between more ships or higher starting technology), is there an obvious set of weapon traits, ship types that everyone will gravitate towards.  An alternative would be for each player to pick a trait, system type, etc as their 'base technology' which would then be unavailable to anyone else at the start of the game (but could be researched later).

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10 Topic by gambler

(9 replies, posted in Starmada)

Hi guys.  Awhile back I proposed a relatively simple campaign system:
http://www.mj12games.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1855

The concept was to allow players to develop their fleet's weapons, ships and tactics based on what their enemies in a developing galactic neighborhood did.

Then I discovered the old Avalon Hill game, "Stellar Conquest".  This is an extremely simple, bare bones strategic space conquest game but it might work for Starmada.  The basic concept is that a number of civilizations reach space flight and begin colonizing their local star group.  Each star is given a specific color, and when a star is explored, a card is flipped that gives the characteristics of the star system (basically the number of production points it provides).  Each game turn, ships are given orders if they're at a star system and can start moving towards another system (the game forces the ships to keep moving to this system until they reach it, unless the race's technology advances far enough).  Combat occurs only when two opposing fleets occupy the same star system (not just any hex).  Every 4th turn, production is tallied applied either towards building new ships/planetary defenses or technology (in game terms, this is usually strategic types of technology.. ships that can change direction in mid journey, distance allowed to move from controlled locations, strategic movement points per turn, etc).  If I recall, production points produced by a system can not be combined with other systems when constructing something (like a ship), but can be combined if used for researching technology.

So my concept would be to use Stellar Conquest as a campaign system for Starmada.  The Production points could map directly to CR values (likely needing some multiplier or divisor depending on how many points are likely a turn).  Additionally, each weapon created to use on a ship would need to be researched using technology points.  The idea would be to allow a certain number of technology points to each side at the start to be able to design the race's "starting weapons" and a certain number of production points to actually make the ships.

After the start of the game, any weapon researched that has attributes WORSE or the same than an existing weapon and that has exactly the same traits, would have a multiplier of 1.0 to design.  A weapon with any entirely new traits for the race has a multiplier of 2.0 for each new trait, and these traits have to start at the 'weakest' level for the given trait.  Any trait which has been researched previously, can be added at the next 'level' for a multiplier of 1.5.  A weapon which increases an attribute gets a multiplier of 1.5 for each attribute increased by 1 level (or decreased, effectively, whatever makes the weapon better).  All of these multipliers are MULTIPLIED together and then the final multiplier is applied to the cost of the weapon.

Exactly one of each new class of ship (the prototype) can be built per 'production' turn.  These new classes can include any new weapons researched in the current production turn.  These weapons will cost their normal amount (no multipliers - the multipliers are just applied against the research cost of the weapon, not actually building them).  The production cost of a prototype is multiplied by 2.0.  In the next production turn, the cost of the new ship class is normal (ie, multiplier of 1.0).

I'll need to play with things a bit, for instance having the production turn every 4 turns might create too sparse a number of ships.  Will also have to figure out how to set up research for actual Tech Levels, and systems on ships outside of weapons.  But it looks as though it has quite a bit of promise.

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11 Topic by gambler

(2 replies, posted in Starmada)

So I referred to some of this in another thread, but the upshot would be to create a set number of races/empires (4-6) each with their own distinctive style of ship/tactics with some limit on the number of weapon traits, special systems, etc, available to each race at the start of the 'campaign'.  Additionally there would be a very specific number of weapons allowed to be built.  Two weapons identical in everything but range would still be two different weapons.

Then each race/empire purchases a set value of ships and 'neighbors' are determined, preferably only 1 or 2, but all must be linked in some fashion (ie, Empire 1 is only in contact with Empire 2 which is also in contact with Empire 3 which is also in contact with Empire 4).

Finally.. Battle!  Each year will be made up of a small number of varied scenarios (or at least varied points).  After each battle, both sides can buy new ships of the classes available (at the start only ships initially created).  Any ships in their fleet pool can then be used for the next battle (up to the point value allowed for said battle).

After each year is over, new weapons/systems can be 'researched'.  This is where it would get somewhat complicated, and before I go into specifics, I want to be clear what the goal is.  The goal is to create a somewhat 'historical' feeling universe where the nations change their ships, weapons and tactics based on actual encounters between their neighbors.  The goal is NOT to play out each individual battle in a campaign.  In general, players should not have to worry about being knocked out of the campaign, but they might find themselves with restricted ship pools due to excessive losses in battles, which could then be worked into the 'history' of the region. 

The idea would be to have a pool of 'research points' to buy new weapons that could be installed on ships.  Weapons similar to previous ones would be cheaper to 'research'.

Weapons no better in any category than an already existing one with exactly the same traits would cost 1/2 the weapon rating (ie, a weapon with [RNG: 9, ROF: 2, ACC: 5+, IMP: 2, DMG: 1] when that race already has a [RNG: 9, ROF: 3, ACC: 5+, IMP: 2, DMG: 2] weapon with the same weapon traits.

Weapons better in categories than an already existing one with exactly the same traits would cost 1 1/2 times their rating to research.

Weapons that combine traits already available would cost 1 1/2 times their rating to research + an additional 10% of their base rating for each trait added.

Any new trait (not in the previous year's set of traits) adds +100% of the base weapon rating for any weapon it is added to (not cumulative with the above +10% modifier).  If this new trait is added to multiple new weapons, it adds 100% of the base weapon rating for EACH new weapon researched.

(Obviously the above is just a quick and dirty set of thoughts and these numbers may need to be tweaked)

At the start of the next year, each race gets a new set of 'build points'.  New ship classes can be built, but each 'new' system or weapon (one created in the previous research phase) costs 200% of its price in 'build points' (this doesn't affect the shipbuilding process, only the 'cost' of the ship).  Ships can be refitted instead.  The player simply chooses how many ships to 'pull off the lines' to refit.  Weapons can be swapped or added as long as the final ship is a 'legal' build (cost would be the cost of the swapped in/added weapon/system, or the cost of the swapped in/added weapon/system * 200% if it was a newly researched one).  Refitted ships are unavailable for the next two battles.

In between each battle starting with the second year, ships can be built OR refitted.  If a new weapon or system was used in a previous combat, their cost on any new ships or refits is 150% of their build points, otherwise it is still 200%.

No matter what, once the next 'research' phase rolls around, any weapons/systems developed in the last research phase lose their modifiers to construction from the previous year.

So the overall concept is... if your technology and tactics and ships are suitable in combat, you might focus on making bigger ships with the same technology (perhaps slightly upgraded in characteristics but not traits).  If however your neighbor just plasters you due to some tactical imbalance due to ship styles or weapons, then you might be forced to develop different styles of ships, add new weapon traits, etc.  This is much less cost effective in the short run, but might be necessary in order to compete against a race that you don't match up well against.

This concept could serve a couple of different goals.  One would be the previously stated one of creating a 'historical' galactic region  that makes sense and whose races would be affected in their development of technology and tactics by their neighbors.  A second goal might just be to get people thinking about ship construction in different ways.  With a limited number of early weapons, ship types and traits, compromises in a preferred style of play, or development of a completely new style would be required.

Anyhow.. comments, opinions, suggestions, criticisms all welcome.  Also keep in mind, this all hit during lunch hour at work when I don't have access to the rules, so some of the above might need reworking to fit Starmada more precisely. smile

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12 Reply by gambler

(7 replies, posted in Starmada)

As I've thought of creating a 'universe' (or at least a small portion of a galaxy... smile ) with a common history for Starmada, I find this discussion interesting.  I also find the discussion a couple of threads below this one about generic weapons vs weapon traits and balance to also be interesting.

Some random thoughts merging the two threads a bit:

1. An official historical universe for Starmada could be fun.  But Starmada appears to always have had a different thrust, that being the flexibility behind it.  What you get instead are multiple source books each detailing a universe (or perhaps just different areas of the same universe).  This is a perfectly valid way to go...

2. If an official historical universe were ever created, I think no better example of how to do it 'right' could be found than the Star Fleet Universe (appropriate since 'Klingon Armada' has been announced).  In 'Star Fleet Battles', the races are balanced primarily against their 'local' adversaries and if the races start fighting against non-bordering races, supposedly balanced (by points) battles can be very unbalanced.  Additionally, some of these races themselves change over time.. The Kzinti for example: Their old ships were very drone heavy (strikers in Starmada terms) with more short range than long range phasers, because they had a lot of civil wars before they really interacted much with their neighboring races, the Klingons, Federation and Lyrans.  As such, their ships were perfectly fine for these civil wars, but not so much when they started conflicts with their enemies (and each race began to develop their own unique ways of dealing with drones).  Over time, their ships changed their focus to more heavy weapons and stronger phasers with drones more as an ancillary weapon (or at least probably only equal to their heavy weapons in importance).

In a nutshell, I find it most interesting if not every race is balanced perfectly against every other race.  Give the races unique identities and fighting styles that have been affected by their experiences with their neighboring races.

One way I thought of creating my own universe was to take 4 or so powers, create _very_ unique styles for each of them and then run a campaign of some sort (VBAM or even simpler) where each race contacts one or two of the others over time and can modify their weapons and systems slowly to account for changes in tactics needed.

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13 Topic by gambler

(4 replies, posted in Starmada)

Hey all.  I played a second game of Starmada: Admiralty Edition this weekend, and combined with reading a VBAM (Victory By Any Means) campaign sourcebook, started thinking about hiding ship information.  I assume the normal way to play Starmada is that all information on a ship card is visible to all players at all times.  However, this VBAM sourcebook had some nice fiction stories about races meeting for  the first time and the surprise at the weaponry/tactics, and even how they changed weapons and tactics to cause more surprises during the war.

Additionally, in  the game I played, I had some specialty ships which obviously should be targeted preferentially over other ships as they could take out a much larger vessel if  they got close.  I guess what I'm looking for is probably most helpful in a campaign setting, but could still be fun in one off battles.

Effectively it would be something like:

From Range 30 or greater (to the nearest friendly ship), only the size of the ship in 10 hull increments can be determined.. ie, you can tell if a ship is 1-10, 11-20, 21-30, etc in size. 

From Range 20-29, the hull increment range is reduced to 5 (so 1-5, 6-10, 11-15, 16-20, etc).

(In both the above ranges, no information on engine rating, shield rating or weapons can be determined.  Any intrinsic capabilities of the ship that provides modifiers to die rolls do not have to be specified when used, only what the actual modifier is.  Or, in the case of Armor Plating, the defending player simply doesn't mark the hits from a 1 damage roll, but doesn't need to tell the attacker that he's not marking the damage.)

From Range 10-19, the exact hull size, engine rating and shield ratings can be determined as well as the number of weapons in each arc, but no other information about the weapons.   

Inside Range 10, all information is known, including damage.

Once a ship has come inside a certain range, the information discovered can always be requested unless the ship cloaks (specifically, if two ships both get inside the Range 10 bracket, and then both are outside range 19 when they cloak again, when they uncloak, only the information at that range is received since it's unknown which ship is which - other rules might also allow this type of behavior to occur).  The other exception is damage.  Damage can ONLY be looked at when the ship is in the 1-10 range bracket.

A ship with Stealth might subtract 5 from all ranges for purposes of information about that ship being detected.

A scout might add 10 to all ranges listed above for purposes of detecting information about other ships.

So.. we come to 'scouts'.   As a note, I dislike Electronic Warfare in Star Fleet Battles.  However, scouts in campaigns are pretty common, so an intrinsic capability called "Scout" could be useful in Starmada.  In addition to the capability above, any scout could in one turn do one of the following:

1. Force one more cloak detection roll against any target in a specified arc within 20 hexes (ie, if the scout states 'Arc A', then any cloaked target in the scout's "A" arc within 20 hexes must roll twice to remain undetected).

2. Give any one ship within 20 hexes the benefits of Fire Control if its target(s) are also within 20 hexes of the scout.

3. Give any one ship within 20 hexes the benefits of Countermeasures.

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14 Reply by gambler

(15 replies, posted in Starmada)

Yup, as a Star Fleet Battles player, I know all about the problems of floating maps.  My impression is that as long as one side doesn't have to 'defend' something, there's not likely to be a decisive engagement.  I tend to look at these things from a real war perspective.  A stronger side going up against a  weaker side probably will just watch the weaker side disengage.  If the two sides are equal, unless for some reason both wish a decisive engagement, they probably won't become too heavily entangled.

It's when a fixed position, or route, needs to be defended that decisive battles would occur, and in those I tend to use a variant of a floating map such that the position being defended must always remain on the map.

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15 Reply by gambler

(15 replies, posted in Starmada)

Ok, so I finally PLAYED the game last night.  I did a solitaire run with two Takulyo class Kalaedinese Destroyers and a Cekalyo class Kalaedinese Cruiser against a Raikou Class Arcturan Battleship from the ISS.

This was a blast.  I guess, coming from a Star Fleet Battles background, that I worried that the loss of detail would lead to a pretty luck dependent, generic feeling game.  Using just the Basic Rules + Sideslips (plus the individual ship and weapon traits used by the classes listed above), I think this game is simply fun while keeping the important tactical options.  The game is really all about maneuvering for the best shot.  I wasn't sure how I'd feel about the simultaneous movement of multiple hexes followed by firing (specifically the concept of not being able to fire at the enemy as it moves from one point to another) but it works beautifully. 

The battle itself came right down to the wire with the toothless (weaponless) Raikou accelerating away from the crippled Kalaedinese fleet (two ships with 1 hull left, one destroyer with 1 weapon left) with 19 fighters still harrassing them.  The most likely outcome was that the relatively undamaged Destroyer would have escaped with the other two Kalaedinese ships being destroyed.  The Raikou also would have been able to escape but would have a long time in a repair dock before it would be able to come back to the front.

One issue I had was with the size of the map.  It didn't come into play much, but for a ship I've designed it could.  I'm curious whether anyone plays with 'floating maps' (ie, when a ship is about to leave the map, move all ships a certain number of hexes away from the map edge about to be exited.. if there's no way to resolve the situation so all ships remain on the map, then the moving ship still leaves... of course, this is somewhat problematic when it comes to simultaneous movement)?

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16 Topic by gambler

(0 replies, posted in The Admiralty Edition)

The racial profile is basically 'fish in space'. 

Yeah there's more to it than that, but I was thinking about the concept of 'Cavalry' back in the Napoleonic and earlier eras and thinking how to come up with a similar ship in Starmada.

Effectively, you need a ship that is fast to be able to get in and out of danger quickly.  It has to have a high crunch power but also be highly vulnerable.  It's main role would be to pick off exposed or hurt units, preferably hanging behind the main fleet until an opportunity presented itself.

(173) Sphyraena-class Piscine Finisher
 
Hull: 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1              
Engines: 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1              
Shields: 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0              
Weapons:
1:X 2: 3: 4: 5: 6:
 
X: Sharp Jaw Plasma: 1/2/3, 1/2+/5/5
Continuing Damage; Slow-Firing; Piercing
[AB] 
 
Special: Armor Plating; Overthrusters; Hyperdrive

Historical Notes: The various factions of the Piscine race each had different philosophies when it came to warfare.  Many looked to their birthplace, the ocean, for inspiration.  While there were many small ships in the Piscine fleet, one ship design group suggested that a larger one modeled after one of the more feared predators of the seas.  The Sphyraena class (a human name for the class - the genus name for the Barracudas) was designed to look for opportunities: ships separated from the fleet and/or damaged ships.  It had only one weapon in a very narrow and short arc to the front, requiring perfect timing to utilize.  It was fast and maneuverable, only armor plating providing protection.  But once it hit, the damage would be devastating.  Ship captains were split in their opinion, but the mavericks and daring individuals took to the ship quickly.  Fleet commanders were even more split, with the first impressions of the ship in operation often being the lasting one.  If the ship was commanded well, it impressed the fleet commander with its vital role in the fleet.  If commanded poorly, it often died early in a battle without a chance to fire.

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17 Reply by gambler

(15 replies, posted in Starmada)

Thanks for the recent thoughts...

I'm just beginning to get back around to setting up the VBAM campaign which will serve as the basis for the 'history' of the four races I listed above.  VBAM should keep the fleets realistic (especially with the optional prototyping rules) if they run into a tactic or race that 'trumps' theirs.  A race might come up with a method to defeat the tactic, but first they'll have to make a prototype for the new technology.  Once the prototypes are in play, they may not "play well" with the older ships, and so there should be a realistic delay in upgrading the whole fleet.  And of course, there'll be the natural tension between "Go with what we have even if it's inferior because we can make it cheaply and easily, or sink some of those resources into new technology which may not be available in amounts enough to make a difference in the current conflict."

Heck, I'm not even sure which races will contact each other first, which will make a big difference in the development of fleets.

Mind you, I have a whole host of projects I want to do, so it's not even definite I'll get to this one anytime soon, but it should be entertaining!

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18 Reply by gambler

(139 replies, posted in Starmada)

Wow, your group(s) played differently than mine does.. Speed 16 would be on the low end of most games I played.

It's an interesting problem.  SFB has some fascinating ship designs.  A Federation Destroyer which has the same photon firepower as the Cruiser, but once it's fired its held photons (holding weapons in SFB is much easier usually than charging them) would have to come to almost a dead stop to recharge all of  them to full strength.  As near as I can tell, things like that will be impossible to simulate in Starmada.

One thing that blurs the boundary of "Is it mechanic, or is it flavor" is that every ship (well, almost all of em) have heavy weapons which can be overloaded.  The upshot is they do more damage, but can only do said damage within a certain range (which is  the same for all weapons - 8 hexes in SFB).  The problem with putting such a mechanic in Starmada is twofold. 

The first problem: you would need different modes for each weapon that could be overloaded (and there are other weapons that have different modes... plasma torpedoes can be turned into 'enveloping' torpedoes which hit all sides of a ship at once, or they can be 'shotgunned' which means they launch a number of smaller plasma torpedoes primarily as fighter defense, or they can even be 'bolted' as a direct fire weapon for less damage).  Modes seem relatively trivial... 

The second problem: This one's much less trivial.  In SFB, overloading a weapon is a somewhat complex tactical decision, especially if a ship might not get into overload range during that turn.  It requires a tradeoff between strength of the heavy weapon and movement (plus other energy related actions).  In Starmada, movement and weapons are independent.  There would basically be no reason NOT to fire overloaded weapons if you're in overload range. 

One quick thought how to handle the problem (note in advance that I don't like it however):

You set the mode at the start of the turn.  Each 'Overload' mode weapon reduces speed by a set # for that turn or prevents the same # of phasers from being fired on that turn.

This feels too kludgy and fiddly though.  One of the beauties of Starmada is its simplicity in rules.  But if you don't have different modes for the weapons a significant portion of the SFU flavor is lost.  But if you add different modes for the weapons, there should be some tradeoff. 

An alternative would be to add one turn to the normal arming time of the standard mode for a weapon if it's fired as an overload.  This is significantly different than how SFB handles overloads, but since everything else in Starmada is very different, I don't consider this a major problem.

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19 Reply by gambler

(139 replies, posted in Starmada)

I also agree with Faustus21 that while the background is restricted to the SFU, I also don't want to see every mechanic from SFB (or even Federation Commander - I'm a bit uncertain if MJ12 just has the SFU background, or if they're tied to one of the two space combat games) making it into Starmada in some fashion or other.

Obviously the basic movement and combat system is much different in Starmada than either of ADB's games.  Obviously there's no energy allocation to worry about in Starmada.  Many of SFB's weapons can be approximated with the traits already present, at least to some extent.  The key for me would be that each race 'feels' like the same race in SFB with weapon traits and firing arcs that are appropriate along with maneuvering ability and robustness of ships.  Much as I love the SFU, I already can play SFB.  If I want something simpler with similar mechanics I can play Federation Commander.  Give me the 'feel' of the SFU while leaving Starmada's mechanics as intact as possible, and I'll be happy!

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20 Reply by gambler

(139 replies, posted in Starmada)

I think the first thing that should be done, is to drop the phrase "Trekmada".  This upcoming conversion will be based on the Star Fleet Universe, not Star Trek.  The Star Fleet Universe makes only tangential mention of any events in TOS (referring to Captain Kosnett as "the second most famous Captain in Star Fleet", "two hot headed captains almost sparking a war in the first Gorn/Federation encounter", etc).  The ONLY ships that are directly from Star Trek are the Federation Heavy Cruiser (and arguably the Command Cruiser), the Klingon D7 Battlecruiser, the Romulan Warbird, the Romulan version of the Klingon D7, and the Tholian Patrol Corvette.  You could probably pick one of the Gorn ships and say that it was the one in "Arena", and possibly one of the Orion ships might have a direct corollary to a ship in TOS.

If someone wants to restrict Starmada's version of the Star Fleet Universe to only including those ships that are ALSO in the 'canon' of Star Trek (at least 'on screen'), those are the only ships and races that you could have.

Like it or not, the Star Fleet Universe has the Kzinti (which appeared  in the Animated series) and a variety of SFU specific races (Hydrans, Lyrans, ISC, Andromedans, etc).

There won't be cloaking devices on Klingons, or disruptors on Romulans.  Klingons won't be able to shoot photon torpedos.  (Of course, given the weapons, nothing will stop players from creating these types of ships).

The Star Fleet Universe is much more warlike and I dare say hangs together FAR better than the Star Trek universe which, well, already has to use the concept of alternate realities to explain the complete lack of continuity.

I'm guessing many people on this thread haven't played SFB, or even Federation Commander, and I'm not saying you should, but one of the neatest things about SFB is the tapestry of history behind it.  Each scenario is one of the threads, and just reading the fiction in the Captains Logs (the Star Fleet Universe 'magazine'), and the historical scenarios, you begin to see how everything hangs together.  The USS Kongo with Captain Kosnett, Ardak Kumerian a great Klingon strategist but not so great tactician and his various commands and missions, the sudden destruction of the USS Hood in the opening days of the General War and the efforts of the survivors in the Saucer section in hiding and eventually making it back to Federation territory.. These are all events that 'feel' as real to me as the events that happen in the Star Trek universe.

If you want a taste of the Star Fleet Universe (specifically, the General War), take a look here:

http://starfleetgames.com/sfb/sfin/general_war.htm
http://www.starfleetgames.com/documents/Timeline.pdf

THAT'S the Star Fleet Universe, and that's what MJ12 bought.

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21 Reply by gambler

(15 replies, posted in Starmada)

Interesting thoughts on the secondary batteries...

It might be something I add 'historically'.  The  thing is I'm creating 4 races at the start of their spacefaring eras (to also be used in a VBAM campaign) with ships and tactics based on their history, politics and biology.  The Terran Unified Republic gets its initial tactics and ships built around  the idea of "as few losses as possible" due to the influence of public opinion in Earth's past few wars.  Another race is influenced more by biology.. being a chameleon/shapeshifter race.  They use the stealth, cloaking, countermeasures type of traits to keep their ships alive, but initially will be fairly generic weapon wise.  The concept being that they utilize ideas they see used against them (more so than finding counters to them).  Another race with a biology based on fish, particularly schooling fish, will have primarily smaller ships with lots of fighters. 

So I guess my main focus of the game isn't to make a perfect ship, weapon, or combination, but to start from a strong concept for each race, and then evolve the concepts based on what weaknesses are exposed in battle.

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22 Topic by gambler

(15 replies, posted in Starmada)

So I received the game this Monday (along with the ISS) and have started to look through it.  Combined with my VBAM (Victory by Any Means) shipment I've begun to create races and ships.  My first impression is, the system looks really cool (of course I'm doing this backwards and making the ships first instead of just trying out the game using the ships in the ISS or demo to test the game system).  I'll fly a couple of solo battles this weekend.

One race I'm working on at the moment is a 'bombardment' race (called the Terran Unified Republic) which is built around smashing the enemy from a distance and taking little casualties in return.  If the enemy can close in however, they may have problems (especially with the Minimum range trait on most of their bombardment ships).

The fleet will be built around the bombardment ships which will likely be Cruiser sized or bigger.  The larger ships won't necessarily have a ton more weapons, but they'll add in extra traits (particularly the other Inverted Range Traits, and the 'Area Effect' trait to the basics of "Variable Impact", "Minimum Range", "Non Piercing" and "Inverted Range Based Mods").  Yup, these are trait heavy weapons, such that only a few will be able to placed on most ships.  The larger ships will have ones with higher IMP and DMG values but will likely be "Slow Firing".  The weapons will primarily be placed in 'broadside' arcs (BDF, ACE).  To accomadate the larger ship's weapons, Overthrusters will be common.  Any extra space will be used for Seekers, continuing the theme of 'keep the enemy away while killing them, and don't risk any more people than we have to'.

Obviously there needs to be more deterrent to charging ships, so the escorts to the fleet will be designed to launch seekers, and will have more traditional, close range weaponry.  In general these will be placed, ideally, between the enemy and the bombardment ships.  They will receive as many defensive abilities as possible while keeping enough weapons to do their job.  Ideally, every fleet would be made up of some multiple of 3 Escorts, 2 Cruiser sized ships, and 1 Dreadnought with three echelons, the escorts closest to the enemy, the cruisers in the next echelon, and the dreadnoughts in the final echelon.

Whether or not this 'fleet' would be effective, I couldn't say.  I can certainly see weaknesses.  My main point is, that almost immediately the game started to get my creativeness going, and that's a very good thing.

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23 Topic by gambler

(1 replies, posted in Starmada)

Hi all,

I was reading the rules on Seekers and Strikers, and have a question:

Do they only attack ships in their hex, or can they attack ships in adjacent hexes (the only mention of this is for seekers which say that if they end up in the same hex as a ship, they must detonate, but nowhere else does it say that the attack must happen in the same hex as a target - if they're a subclass of 'fighter' then unless a rule specifically states otherwise, I would read it as them being able to attack from an adjacent hex - although conceptually I would expect them to have to 'hit' the target).

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24 Reply by gambler

(60 replies, posted in Starmada)

And by the way... just to get people 'in the mood' for the SFU:

http://starfleetgames.com/sfb/sfin/general_war.htm

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25 Reply by gambler

(60 replies, posted in Starmada)

Hey guys... I'm an avid Star Fleet Battles (SFB) player who thinks the Star Fleet Universe (SFU) is pretty darned cool (more so than the TOS universe).

I read this thread with interest.  I recently purchased Starmada solely on the news that this conversion would take place, but after reading the demo rules,  am glad to have the game for what it is too.  Looks like a great set of rules.

Just a thought here, and in no way shape or form am I thinking that the designer of Starmada won't be able to do a great job of the conversion:

In spite of loving the features of Star Fleet Battles, I may be in the minority of SFB fans who are interested in this project.  I would prefer the game to utilize as FEW of the SFB specific rules as possible.  For instance, directional shielding.  People have pointed out things like the Enveloping Plasma Torpedo and the Hellbore (and to a lesser degree the ISC PPD) as reasons why you need directional shielding.  I don't agree.  How about something like this instead:

     1. An EPT or a Hellbore has a + 1 to the Impact roll for every shield point lower than the original rating on the target ship (to a maximum of +2 to the Impact Roll).
     2. An EPT or Hellbore reverses the position of Shield Hit and Hull hit in "The Damage Roll Table".  Additionally, any one hull hit may be converted into an engine or weapon hit (1, 2, 3 it's an engine; 4, 5, 6 it's a weapon).

Point #1 shows the usefulness of these weapons against ships with reduced shields.
Point #2 shows how these weapons tend to both reduce all around shielding, and to cause more damage to important systems due to "The Mizia Effect".  (Mind you, the latter part - conversion of hull hit to other system could be left out, as I don't think this occurs in other games in the Universe - Fed Commander or Star Fleet Battle Force, so it's definitely a Game System, not Universe item).

Of course, those could be traits, to make it less specific, and a Hellbore or EPT would have those traits.
(Please note I'm not suggesting this idea is in any way balanced or the way to go, just that for those SFB players who want to bring system specific concepts to Starmada, that there might be other ways of showing them while keeping Starmada's flavor intact).

Heck, even Federation Commander changes how the shields work to no small degree (easier to regenerate, and the ability to shift a few boxes to an adjacent shield once a turn).  And then there's Star Fleet Battle Force which uses wholly different mechanics (being a card game) and still manages to keep the flavor of the Universe, if not exactly the flagship game.  So my long winded point is, make the Universe fit the System, not the other way around.. otherwise you just have a different version of 'SFB lite'.

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