26

(27 replies, posted in Starmada)

Blacklancer99 wrote:
cricket wrote:

Is there a reason you couldn't just use "tough" fighters to simulate gunboats?

In my mind, yes. Reason: gunboats are usually portrayed as having starship scale weapons while fighters cannot. For an example not from SFU there are arachnid gunboats (and later Gorm) in the Starfire books that are stated as mounting "all up", warship scale antiship missiles rather than fighter missiles, as well as point defense. I'm not looking to create outlandish eggshells with sledgehammers, but convert things that exist elsewhere.
Erik

Or the corvettes from Homeworld.  Guess I could build 'em as hull 3s...  The escorts from BFG also spring to mind (though good luck fitting all the stuff they put on those into a hull 1 or 2).

27

(12 replies, posted in Starmada)

cricket wrote:

Just FWIW, the point-costing for weapon range is no longer linear. By adding long range sensors, you are increasing your ships' ORAT by over 50%...

Hmm...  perhaps I misread, but I recall LRS modifying only Defense Score.  Are range changes due to LRS applied for weapon battery ORAT pricing?  If so, isn't it much worse to use LSR range 12s as opposed to un-LRS 15s?

And I agree; this is one piece of equipment that makes me very, very nervous, because it encourages long-range stand-off weapons.

28

(61 replies, posted in Starmada)

underling wrote:
cricket wrote:
Marauder wrote:

"Starship Killer" - This weapon gets +1 column shift against ships (i.e. not fighters or drones or future things smaller than full ships).  Cost 1.4

This is identical to the same weapon with a BAS increased by 40%.

And I may be wrong here, but when you're designing ships from scratch, having a BAS other than one is kind of pointless.
Simply add more dice.

Not quite true.  Non-integer BAS can be used to slightly manipulate the way damage falls off with penalties, because of how rounding works.

29

(30 replies, posted in Starmada)

cricket wrote:
Nomad wrote:

I too like the fact that SNE includes ECCM rules, and that they are nice and simple

Glad you approve.

I had been toying with allowing ships with the "Scout" ability to apply a level-1 EPM to any ship within X hexes... But that might start complicating things a bit too much.

I do like the idea of Scouts being able to provide some degree of EPM for the benefit of other ships; it lessens the problem of "OK, they have no Escorts, so my Scouts are wasted points."

30

(27 replies, posted in Starmada)

My brother did something similar to this in AE with hull 1s, no defenses, and a G-arc shortish-range repeater.  They lost a close game against a fleet carrier and some escorts; fighters made them sad, as did marines and teleporters, but they managed to down all of the escorts and did a number on the carrier (this was back when we played to last unit standing rather than VP).

31

(30 replies, posted in Starmada)

underling wrote:
Nomad wrote:

Don't know if y'all have ever played Stargrunt, but my god, their ECM rules were painful.  We actually got up to ECCCCCCM (that's right, electronic counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-countermeasures) once during play.  Resolving that was ugly...

I own it and have played it, but have not encountered a "multi-C" effect.

Page 52 of the SGII rulebook lists "try and foil an attempted task by an opposing EW unit (ie: ECM, ECCM, ECCCM, and so on...)" as a legal EW task.  Perhaps it's an SGI vs SGII difference (do not have / have not played SG1; should have specified)?

But that is beside the point.  I too like the fact that SNE includes ECCM rules, and that they are nice and simple tongue.

32

(30 replies, posted in Starmada)

Blacklancer99 wrote:
cricket wrote:
Blacklancer99 wrote:

Ah, so it is a real world, bland, MilSpeak, euphamistic term. If that's not a good reason not to use it, I don't know what is! wink

At least it's better than "ECCM" -- which immediately makes me wonder about "ECCCM". smile

Isn't ECCCM just ECM against ECCM? Would that be ECM^2?  :roll:

I guess I'll just stick with referring to EPM and trying never to think of what it stands for!  wink

Erik

Don't know if y'all have ever played Stargrunt, but my god, their ECM rules were painful.  We actually got up to ECCCCCCM (that's right, electronic counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-countermeasures) once during play.  Resolving that was ugly...

33

(133 replies, posted in Starmada)

cricket wrote:
Ozymandias wrote:

But that increase would mean no real effect on gameplay other than perceived reliability on weapons?

Yes. In theory. On average. YMMV. Etc.

Well, until you start trying to use weapons with Accurate...

Also, any chance we could get a Bourbaki Basin for Nova?  Have BFG conversions, want to post, not sure where to tongue.

34

(61 replies, posted in Starmada)

cricket wrote:

Anyway, to go back to one of the OP's questions, I plan to reintroduce anti-fighter ("precise"?) which will counter the -1 penalty for attacking fighters and/or minefields.

You know, you could go all the way and make it basically Fire Control, but for that one weapon.
And I wholeheartedly support keeping 'hard counter' traits like Ignores and Exclusive out (though I will miss my range 1 Area Effect Fighter-Exclusive warp fields...  some sacrifices are necessary for the good of all tongue ).

35

(133 replies, posted in Starmada)

Marauder wrote:

I had some thoughts on an "anti armour" wpn trait.  I don't think a system that lets you bypass x% of the damage directly to the hull to be that effective.  For cases where the ship has relatively low armour to hull, a system like that makes no net difference.  If the ship has more armour than hull it does help, but only if there are no other weapon types being used against the same target.  This is a problem as neither "piercing" (vs shields) or fire control ( vs ECM) are less useful based on the magnitude of the defence or if other weapons are used.

My suggestion is to use one if these two:
"armour eater": each time this weapon scores a point of damage to armour cross off an additional point of armour.
OR
"armour penetrator": for each point of armour damage this weapon causes roll a d6.  On 4,5,6 also cross off a point of hull.

I like the penetrator more as it really makes it feel like the armour is being defeated.

-Tim

I kinda like Armor Eater, actually.  Reminds me of the acid warheads from BattleTech, and would also work nicely for Necron Gauss weapons and Tyranid things literally munching on your armor...

36

(133 replies, posted in Starmada)

jwpacker wrote:
cricket wrote:
Nomad wrote:

So, uh...  noticed a little weirdness with some weapon pricing.

Weird. This never came up before, even though the effect was present in the Admiralty Edition:

1) One [AC], one [BD] weapon in a battery with RNG 2-4-6, ROF 1, ACC 5+, IMP 1, DMG 1. Thrust 6. SUs = 12. ORAT = 24.0.

2) One [AC], one [BD] weapon in a battery with RNG 3-6-9, ROF 1, ACC 5+, IMP 1, DMG 1 (Carronade). Thrust 6. SUs = 12.6. ORAT = 21.0.

Suggestions?

Maybe Carronade needs to be 0 at short range and -1 out to medium, with no long range? It did always seem like a strange thing that the weapon lost range penalties.

Dunno...  that seems a bit odd, too.  I think deriving significant advantage from the minor carronade discount will be tricky, as using it on longish range weapons requires a high thrust to generate the savings, which nullifies the SU savings and is not terribly useful on its own (since Evasive penalizes your own shooting, and I keep hearing claims that having tons of engines is significantly less useful under Newtonian that it was for us under Naval).  I only managed to generate ~20 points of ORAT savings arming a thrust 6 hull 9 with 9-Carronades vs 6s, and it saved me one point of CRAT.  On a 114 vs 115 point ship, I was getting <1% yield, so...  not sure if I'm concerned or not.  I'll see if I can produce a really pathological case.

6 points of savings on a TL2 hull 9 engines 12, 12 vs 18 carronade.

Well, took a TL2 hull 1000 vessel, thrust 6, no defenses, and filled up the AA arc with guns.  Carronade version could fit 9757 guns, un-carronade could fit 9074, so about a 10% increase in firepower.  Difference in CRATs was only 220 points, which was less than 2% of the CRATs (21736 for carronade, 21516 for un-carronade).

37

(133 replies, posted in Starmada)

Ozymandias wrote:

Would you guys consider the SUs or the ORAT to be the more important when determining how potent a weapon is? All the traits multiply SUs so I'm leaning that way, but am unsure.

SU cost factors into ORAT as well.  Ultimately ORAT is likely a better measure, since it takes into account strictly more information (though since ORAT is calculated for the battery as a whole, it is less useful in measuring the expected effectiveness of a single weapon).

38

(133 replies, posted in Starmada)

So, uh...  noticed a little weirdness with some weapon pricing.

Consider a thrust 6 vessel.  It can mount a range 6 weapon, or a range 9 carronade.  The carronade is superior, since it has a longer short range and can fire without penalty out to 6, so, all else being equal, it should be more expensive.  However, according to both the drydock and my own spreadsheet, the carronade is actually less expensive, both in terms of SU and ORAT.  This is not true of higher ranges at thrust 6, but at thrust 12, the same is true of range 12 vs range 18 carronade.

39

(133 replies, posted in Starmada)

bpolitte wrote:

If I'm reading the starship construction rules right, it appears that aft facing banks take up less SUs than forward facing banks that cover the same size arc (FR vs AR for instance).

Why is that? Because forward facing weapons are more likely to be brought to bear?

If so, that seems open to exploitation by building ships designed to constantly run away for their opponents (besides also being counter-intuitive that the same number and type of weapons take up more space mounted in the front of a ship than the rear.)

If I've read something wrong there forgive my questions please.

That is indeed how things work.  This is intended as a counter to the problem in AE that long-range forward-facing guns were just too damn good.  By making them more expensive, it's possible that broadsidey fleets might now be viable.

On the other hand, I do somewhat agree that it should probably (for simulation's sake) be an ORAT multiplier rather than an SU multiplier.  That is a good point.

Alex Knight wrote:
Nomad wrote:

Resolving mine / asteroid damage would be tricky, though.

Not really. Asteroids (particularly the cinematic asteroids) would likely void the cloak anyways. "Sir, sensors are picking up large energy spikes in the Hydapes belt, the signature matches that of deflection shields." "Weapons officer, target the location of those spikes and fire all weapons!"

Mines, same situation - depending on the trigger. There is still mass in that location.

And if the counter *isn't* your actual location, then perhaps the sensor 'ghost' obviously doesn't mesh with the incoming scans and can be discounted. "Sir, the sensors report a vessel in the Hydapes belt, but is not picking any energy spikes from deflection shields." "Ensign, ignore that signal and focus on the other two..." I.E. You remove the counter.

Good solution!  Now we just need pricing tongue.

41

(133 replies, posted in Starmada)

So, a bit of a weird question:

Friendly escorts block line of sight, and scouts can be used to circumvent only enemy escorts.  Is there any particular reason you can't use scouts to circumvent friendly escort LOS blocking?

Also, how do Long-Range Sensors / extreme ranges interact with the combined range-based traits?  For example, if I have a Guided Ballistic weapon, do I take -2 or -3?

42

(4 replies, posted in Starmada)

jwpacker wrote:
Nomad wrote:

My Traveller group seriously considered the idea of using Starmada to resolve High Guard-type battles, but it never came to fruition.

That you have a Traveller group makes me more than a little jealous. smile

Well, had a Traveller group...  we got rich and retired, so back to D&D for a bit.

jwpacker wrote:

I think it could work well with Traveller, to depict naval actions (probably less so for small-scale stuff like piracy with a single corsair and a free trader) and would be fine alongside a military-based game. Any ideas on how you'd have the characters impacting the game? Or what sort of scales you'd be looking at for Traveller ships?

And yeah, that was the conclusion we came to.  Good for like "OK, giant capital ships are fighting.  Your free trader is not going to make a difference...  but to keep things fun, let's zoom out to Starmada mode."  We never really looked at it in too much depth; it was more "Arrgh, don't want to use High Guard capital ship combat rules.  Hmmm...  Starmada might work."  Character impact didn't come up terribly, but things like high Gunnery allowing rerolls for firing or high Engineering allowing damage control rerolls could serve well.  I think somebody did AE conversions of Traveller vessels a while back, but I can't find 'em in the Basin...

43

(4 replies, posted in Starmada)

My Traveller group seriously considered the idea of using Starmada to resolve High Guard-type battles, but it never came to fruition.

cricket wrote:
Nomad wrote:

It appears, unless I'm misreading things, that Cloaking no longer provides an element of hidden information.  This is quite saddening to me, since that was the best part.

This was not a game-balance decision, but a playability one. Without written movement orders -- or simultaneous movement -- as the "default", I thought it would be too hard to track where the cloaked ship had moved and/or give the cloaked ship too much of an advantage/disadvantage by moving first or last. (And I don't want any options to depend on any others -- i.e. "if you use cloaking, you have to use written movement".)

I'm open to tweaks that add a bit of the unknown back to cloaking... perhaps allowing a ship to move X number of hexes upon de-cloaking to simulate uncertainty over its "true" location?

Certainly; cloak in AE was ridiculously hard to keep track of.  The solution I had in mind (which I think someone proposed here at one point, but I can't find it...) was that upon cloaking, you replace the ship with three copies, each of which tracks movement and thrust separately, though they all move on the same activation.  While cloaked, none can fire, and they cannot be fired on.  Only one is the actual location of the ship; the copy number of written down separately when cloaking is activated.  When de-cloaking, reveal the number of the 'real' copy and remove the other two copies.  Resolving mine / asteroid damage would be tricky, though.

45

(133 replies, posted in Starmada)

jwpacker wrote:

I, too, am generally pleased with the changes. There are optional rules aplenty to modify them to suit most any need. So far, unless I've missed something, the only thing I feel like was missing was customization rules for fighters/fighter flights and drones - I think I'll miss the old system here more than anywhere else.

Also, while we do have Piercing for reducing the effectiveness of Shields, there's no equivalent to reduce the effectiveness of armor or ECM (except the ECCM optional rules, but that's not a weapon feature). I'd also like to see the equivalent of the old Ignores Shields, and Ignores Armor would be useful for modeling meson weapons from Traveller, but would have to be a pretty darned high multiplier, I think, to be allowed.

The fighter customization is pretty limited, yeah...  just the six traits on the bottom of page 15 / top of page 16.  A lot of the cheese in AE, though, was from killer strikers, which relied heavily on being able to combine lots of small craft traits and speed 15, so this seems a reasonable reaction.  It's easier to expand systems by adding traits than it is to go "Hey guys, we goofed on X-trait, don't use it."

Well, Fire Control helps against ECM, and Catastrophic certainly seems like a valid counter to Armor...  tongue.  Also, one viable 'weapon level' counter to ECM is to increase the Base Attack Strength of the weapon; if you double it, then you effectively ignore two levels of ECM.  And extra hits against un-ECM'd targets to boot!

As for Ignores...  frankly, they're one of the things I'm happiest didn't make it into Nova.  The extra shieldbreaking traits in the Rules Annex were one of the places AE went really wrong - they rendered shields basically an inviable defense, especially when put on fast strikers or high-Acc weapons, which moved the game even more towards a quick-draw style of combat ("Whoever shoots first wins").  The increased variety and availability of defenses in Nova (and lack of easy, total-circumvention counters like Ignores) suggests that perhaps one of the design goals was to move away from that type of gameplay.

46

(2 replies, posted in Starmada)

diddimus wrote:

I'm not sure I understand how morale works in Nova.  It seems as the though the higher the morale the less ships I can buy, but the more VPs my opponent needs.  Is this right?

Looks like.  I almost feel like it simulates crew experience better - it's hard to field a large fleet with completely veteran crews, but at the same time, they're less likely to break ranks until things have really hit the fan.  Likewise, it's easy to field a large fleet of conscripts, but they're likely to panic or rout relatively early.

47

(133 replies, posted in Starmada)

Marauder wrote:

Cricket I know in one of the previews you showed you had added a phrase that if you (due to serious outnumbering) were able to move/fire more than one ship at a time your opponent got to select one of the ships.  That would really help against something like the above situation.

Agreed; I was surprised that that didn't appear in the rules, as it seemed a decent idea (though there were weird breakpoints at 2:1 vs 2:1 - 1).

48

(55 replies, posted in Starmada)

cricket wrote:

As mentioned elsewhere, p.47: DRAT calculation should have a x1.67 multiplier.

The drydock seems to indicate that this does not apply to additions from Carrier and similar; just want to verify that this is correct.

cricket wrote:
Nomad wrote:

Alas, poor Cloaking, though...

Poor cloaking... why?

It appears, unless I'm misreading things, that Cloaking no longer provides an element of hidden information.  This is quite saddening to me, since that was the best part.  I may investigate homebrewing a solution which both provides this and plays nicely with non-preplotted movement.

jwpacker wrote:

And I look forward to Nomad's spreadsheet - the Drydock website is good for getting started, but not really my ideal tool. I like something I can use offline, and that calculates on the fly for me, rather than having all those submit buttons.

It does fulfil those two criteria!  Also it's up in the files section now.

Also minor administrative question: Cricket, is there going to be a separate Basin subforum for Nova / should I hold off posting ship designs tongue ?