We had a guy field 250-point flights of independent hyperspace-capable defense 5 extra hull damage 'superfighters' for a while as his entire fleet...  this led to everyone putting Piercing +2 on all of their anti-fighter weapons once we found Cricket's ruling here that piercing worked against fighter defense.  Since everyone already had P+2 on all of their anti-ship weapons, P+2 became the universal standard for all weapons.  It kinda sucked.  Later, after the superfighters died out to cheap, cost-effective interceptors who could keep them locked down all game in dogfights for a tiny fraction of the price, we started seeing Defense 1 on all small craft, since it got around P+2 and is cost-efficient.

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(10 replies, posted in Starmada)

Blacklancer99 wrote:

See, I never really thought of that effect (and I never would have even attempted the math!) as the specific system I was looking to port would be No Hull Damage as well  lol  Thanks for the feedback! I just throw everything against the forum wall and see what sticks...
Erik

Nah, I was just "The Guy Who Uses Directed Damage" in my group for a while tongue.  At some point I realized that turning shots at 3+ to shots at 4+ DD seemed to be working unusually well, and then I found myself unable to sleep until I'd done the math.  I think Precision + No-Hull might work out; 1.5 for Precision and .7 for No-Hull give 1.05, which is pretty close to the 1.1 you had in mind.

I guess my thought on delayed damage is that it could conceivably delay the achievement of victory conditions by a turn and let the enemy win instead, when normal weapons fire would've drawn the game.  Likewise, if you could've won on turn n with normal weapons but instead used delayed, the enemy has a chance to pull of a draw in turn n+1 before their stuff blows up from the delay.  It seems a little risky to me.  Games seem to me to be either totally dominated by one side, in which case it makes no difference, or very, very close, in which case it makes all the difference, especially when there are only a few turns of real shooting going on.  With delayed, you're basically losing one turn of firing (the last turn of the game).  Not as bad as losing half the turns of firing (as with Slow-Firing), so not as low as that, but .9 also seems a bit high.  .8 seems reasonable; if there are 5 turns of effective firing, and you're losing 1 turn, you're at 80% effectiveness, for .8.  Fewer than 5 turns of shooting makes this less than cost-efficient, and more than 5 turns of shooting makes it more than cost-efficient.

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(10 replies, posted in Starmada)

So, I've not got much to say about Delayed Fire; it's an interesting concept, but I don't think I would use it because damage now is better than damage later.  Precision, though, I have some thoughts on.  x1.1 is definitely too low; using Directed Damage allows you to boost your expected number of hull hits from 1 per 2 damage dice to 3 per 4 damage dice by re-rolling all damage dice which are not hull hits ( 1/2 initial hull + 1/2 not-hull  * 1/2 of not-hulls turned into hulls = 3/4), for a multiplier of 1.5 (.75 / .5).  Against armor plating, the expected number of hull hits increases from 1 per 3 damage dice to 5 per 9 damage dice ( 1/3 + 2/3 * 1/3 = 5/9 ), for a multiplier of 1.6666 (.5555 / .3333), which for traits would round up to 1.7.  These numbers speak nothing of the versatility which directed damage generates as well for crippling a particular system, just of raw hull-damage power, which seems to be how most trait multipliers are determined.  Therefore, I would recommend an x1.5 multiplier for Precision, and just let it be an efficient counter to Armor Plating.

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(19 replies, posted in Starmada)

Boneless wrote:
starbreaker wrote:

shields have been right out of the question since the Halves / Ignores traits were released...

Agreed, which is why we don't play with Halves/Ignores Shields locally.  Their departure from the core SAE was one of the best things in that edition.  Their return is close to the worst.  Very glad they didn't ooze into SFO, and hope never to see them there.

Do you feel the same way about Piercing?  Or is it mild enough to be okay?  (I use Pierce 3, Extra Shield Damage on mine and fights have trouble making it to round 3.)

Piercing +2 is very similar mathematically to Halves Shields; the only case where it is different is against Shields 3, where P+2 reduces them to effectively Shields 1, but Halves rounds them up to effective Shields 2 for the same price.  If Halves is broken, then P+2 definitely is as well, and P+3 is even better.  Piercing +1 is pretty OK, though; it's problematic if you're running Shields 5, but not so bad otherwise.  And it is good to have some counter to S5 other than just "more impact".

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(19 replies, posted in Starmada)

underling wrote:

I see posts like this every so often, and I'm not sure I understand the apparent need to min-max.
If there seems to consistently be a problem when excesses like the above are used, my question is, why do you do it?  wink
It just doesn't seem like it'd be much fun.

Because if you don't, the enemy will.  Or more accurately, the enemy will regardless of whether you do or not, so it's kind of advisable if you want to win (because winning is fun, and losing is distinctly less fun).  And yeah, it'd be nice to play fair / light / non-cheesed...  but I'll be damned if I can convince the people I play with to do it.  And so the minmaxing goes on, until the game ends (like it's kinda doing now...).

But yeah, CAP-dogfight fighter interceptors are definitely the counter to use (as opposed to striker / seeker interceptors who can't dogfight and thereby guarantee detonation / destruction next turn).  The trouble with those is that they're self-countering; if you know the enemy's bringing interceptors to dogfight, all you have to do is bring about the same number (for the same cost), try to dogfight them before they get your missiles, and then you're back where you started...  it's just a point-tax on both sides.  But it's the only reliably effective counter we ever found against striker saturation (besides also using striker saturation and hoping you're the last one standing when the dust settles); Point Defense wasn't enough, upgrading AFBs so they could fire reactively barely helped, interceptor strikers or seekers weren't enough, long-range AF weapons sometimes worked but not nearly as reliably, shields have been right out of the question since the Halves / Ignores traits were released...

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(11 replies, posted in Starmada)

I would say that they'd probably have a tough time under most circumstances against the Imperials.  A scenario where the Imperials have to come to them, and where they have cover to hide in, would favor them.  If they have to go after the Imperials, they're going to get hammered at range while they close.  If the Imperials can achieve fighter superiority, the Arcturans seem poorly-equipped to deal with it (basically end up relying on shields and armor plating and just trying to soak up the damage).  And the slow-firing main guns...  arg.

One disclaimer, though - we've been using Naval Movement from the Annex.  I imagine that under newtonian / standard movement, the Arcturans might be able to close more quickly and get under the Imperial long-range advantage without having to burn their engines out with emergency thrust (or they might be able to get up to speed and then use Evasive Action while still actually moving at a reasonable pace towards the Imperials).

Another disclaiming factor is that due to the points limits, we basically only had access to ships up to 450 points, so we were unable to field either of the Arcturan heavies (the 995 and the 555 pointers).  The fleet carrier would've been nice, since our fighters did a pretty serious chunk of our damage, but the battleship would likely have been too slow to close the gap effectively.  Similarly, we didn't field the 350ish point heavy cruiser - as attractive as shields 5 were, Repeating 5+ weapons are a terrible, terrible plan (mathematically, they're not expected to pay for themselves - even at close range for 4+, repeating doubles your expected hits per point of RoF for an x3 cost multiplier.  At 5+, repeating gives you an expected x1.5 multiplier, and at 6+, it's only x1.16 expected hits for x3 cost), and even worse against an enemy known to have Countermeasures.  So that ship was basically written off as "horrifyingly inefficient".

But yeah, I would say that in general, with no data other than "Imperials vs. Arcturans", I would be inclined to bet on Imperials.  It feels kinda like The Trap, in my experience - we've never had a defender win Trap in my group, but I'm pretty sure it's doable.  Likewise, I would say that it's probably possible to win with Arcturans...  but it would take some good luck and good skill, or a mistake by the Imperials.

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(11 replies, posted in Starmada)

Hypothesis confirmed - a friend and I had Arcturans and our opponents had Imperial, and by the end of Turn 5, we had 500 of 600 required VP but nothing able to go take the last 100 from the enemy (everything down to engines 2, and all of our slow-firing stuff having already fired), who could sit out at range 15 and gradually whittle us away with lightning turrets.  Our fighters did a number on 'em, but only lasted one turn against the huge volume of close defense cannons.  Our armor plating was helpful, in that it saved our ships from destruction, but left us crippled in midfield instead of destroyed...  not much better.  And yeah, CM + FC was brutal at long range, and at mid-range they could've used Directed Damage if they had remembered, which would've further circumvented our armor plating...

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(3 replies, posted in Starmada)

I believe Battlefleet Gothic had one or more scenarios of this type.  If I recall correctly (which I may totally not be), the defender couldn't use special orders during the first turn; translated to Starmada, this might mean that you couldn't use Evasive Action, Directed Damage, Emergency Thrust, or Vectored Shields before you're on full alert.  Damage Control, Fighter Launch, and Mine Deployment might also be up for restriction during this period.

Alternatively, you could go with "Until the attacker actually attacks a defending element, or moves an element within n hexes of a defending element, the defender's elements are unable to act (plot movement, activate cloak, launch fighters, fire weapons, deploy mines, &c)."  So the attacker gets to maneuver around a bunch, then makes a turn of surprise attacks (note - I recommend having the defender's shields up already.  Otherwise, slaughter on that one turn of shooting before they're up, game over), then both sides act as normal.  Nice and simple, with a suitable advantage for the attacker.  Could vary detection ranges for attacking ships vs. attacking fighters if you want to recreate the incentives that led to the use of fighters there the first time.

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(10 replies, posted in Starmada)

Boneless wrote:

We hella banned it because it breaks campaign systems.

We had to tweak our campaign system around it; we just charged econ points for hull that had been repaired during battle, and if it couldn't be paid, then the regenerated hull points degenerated after battle.  It required a little more book-keeping, since we had to track how many points of hull had been regenerated on each ship, but it worked out.

135

(13 replies, posted in Starmada)

Blacklancer99 wrote:

Well in the actual show there are examples of reinforcements arriving via hyperspace during a battle. You could also use "jumping in" for the To the Rescue scenario from the rulebook.
Erik

I've been meaning to build a "double rescue" scenario for a while, where both sides start with reinforcements that arrive late on random turns.  Another interesting proposition would be to plot each element's location upon entry, with no restrictions (ie, choose a hex.  Any hex) at the beginning of the game, but to be uncertain when it would arrive.

But yeah.  I like where this thread is going.

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(1 replies, posted in Starmada)

I know some tournaments have been run at various Cons, but I don't know what rules were employed.  MadSeason also ran a PBEM tournament a couple years back with pregen'd ships, but I don't remember how it turned out.  There was also a good thread a looong time ago with some well-thought-out tournament rules.

Personally, if I were to run a tournament, I'd probably pregenerate a couple fleets of Things Which Are Not Broken and let players choose from them.  If you do go with the "build and bring" approach, I'd probably disallow Ammo, Starship Exclusive, Range > 15, Acc 2+ (which lets Repeating go super-efficient very reliably), all the shield-breaking traits from Rules Annex (Ignores, Halves, P+2, and P+3), and Flotillas - those're the options that my group has opted to disallow.  They recently banned strikers (but not seekers) as well, but I'm not sure that prohibition will remain in place for very long.  I'd also remove Stealth, though my group has not yet voted to do so.

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(11 replies, posted in Starmada)

That's odd...  all the times I've seen Imperials fielded against any fleet, they've gotten massacred badly.  Never pitted them against the Arcturans, though...  that might have to go on my group's docket the next time we play.

138

(10 replies, posted in Starmada)

madpax wrote:

Didin't he use Damage Control?
IIRC, regeneration is used to repair hull, no?

Marc

Yah, regen only repairs hull.  We weren't playing with Damage Control, though, and by the time he went "Uhh...  can we use damage control?" a number of my vessels would've needed to have used it on previous turns, and we didn't want to retcon.  We're bad at toggling options that need to be in effect from the beginning of the game, and we generally don't use damage control because it's kind of annoying / random enough that it can be either really useless or really frustrating.  I guess we'd rather see Damage Control as a starship trait than having it be a universal combat option.  Might have to hack that together...

But yeah, regen without Damage Control seems rather weak; it may keep you alive, but you'll be out of systems unless all that hull damage came from something like EHD or Cata, or any other effect that inflicts many hull hits without the corresponding number of systems hits (normally 2 systems hits per hull hit on average; with EHD, expectation is 2/3 of a system hit per hull hit, and with Cata it's 4/7 of a system hit per hull hit).  So it's a specialized counter-trait for those kinds of damage sources and not generally worth using otherwise without Damage Control.  I ended up using Directed Fire to cripple his engines and weapons rather than going for hull because I simply didn't have the firepower to destroy it outright, but I could definitely render it useless.

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(10 replies, posted in Starmada)

We had a guy try it the other night...  ended up stuck in the middle of the map with no engines or weapons, but plenty of hull during the first game, and then rolled all <5 for it the other game and exploded.  I believe he's phasing it out in favor of more shields.

On a related note, how does regeneration interact with flotillas, if at all?

140

(15 replies, posted in Starmada)

My group's recently banned ammo, ranges over 18, and engines over 15, but the core of the system is solid; it's only when you start getting out into 'degenerate' player-designed ships that things start to get ugly.  And yeah, there's been some debate over AFBs...  I don't think we've found a good solution yet.  I've switched to Point Defense for my anti-fighter needs, since it really helps keep the strikers / seekers off.

141

(2 replies, posted in Starmada)

Yes!  Many thanks.  No idea why I couldn't find that; I was searching for piercing and fighters, and went back through '07.  That's getting bookmarked, I think.

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(2 replies, posted in Starmada)

I'm pretty sure this was answered here at some point in the past, but it came up in discussion and I couldn't find the post after half an hour of searching.  Do Piercing, Halves Shields, and Ignores Shields work against Fighter defense scores?  I think the response was Yes, but I cannot for the life of me find it.

143

(6 replies, posted in Starmada)

And finally, can a Minimum Range weapon fire on a Stealthy target in the first third of its range? (Sorry to thread necromance, but this seemed the most appropriate place for the question)

144

(4 replies, posted in Starmada)

Hey, so we did test this on Saturday (bleeding into Sunday morning).  It was a pretty decisive win for Defense, around 1000 VP to 150, but offense made a couple of serious mistakes - they split their forces into three directions, decided not to pre-deploy some their fighters (not sure what they were after with that...  but nothing better than taking out a fully-loaded carrier before it can launch), and generally did not play optimally.  Granted, the defense wasn't perfect, either - there was a poorly-deployed minefield, a couple instances of serious overkill, and two flights of interceptors that never engaged.  I think if they'd pre-deployed their fighters, they probably could've swarmed the defenses (which were lacking in the AF department, especially on the side the undeployed carrier was on) and won. 

Somewhat different detail and a number of other reports at http://wanderinggamist.blogspot.com/

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(4 replies, posted in Starmada)

I'm pretty sure there's a caveat against directing Continuing Damage.  That'd be quite scary otherwise.

And yeah...  we don't really have a setting.  There are just fleets, who sometimes have a flavor (usually via weapon and ship names - there's one fleet with mythic Norse names, one with religious-sounding names, one with mythic Greek names, one that is converted entirely from Star Control II, and my 40k / Battlefleet Gothic fleets).  So we don't really have a scale, either.  Everybody's started using TL2 on everything to fit stuff into small hulls, but I feel like our use of TL is not at all connected to perceived technological superiority (and rather that it's used because it's there).  I dunno; guess I'll have to ask the rest of the group how hard they think destroying planets should be.  So it goes with houserules.

And yeah, that's true about G-arcs being legal...  but Cricket has mentioned several times that they seriously considered implementing pricing by arc usage (with A and B > C and D > E and F).  It doesn't help that we play with an oversize map (nine sheets of hex paper taped together, each tiled with 3/4-inch hexes - about 44 hexes by 34 hexes, rather than 23 by 22) and tend to start out at the edges, so it's quite easy to keep an enemy's ships in long-range forward arcs.  Personally I prefer "Cloak and get right behind them" as a solution to long-range forward weapons, but it's nice to have hiding places for when you have to decloak midway through crossing the map.

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(4 replies, posted in Starmada)

Hmm...  I guess my first thought is one of balance, and my second is of realism.  What we've noticed since we started using terrain is that having something to hide behind really helps shift the advantage away from the long-range G-arc only fleets that people complain about here sometimes.  If you make it so that cover can be destroyed, then the advantage goes back to them, which seems an undesirable outcome, especially given that the best / most prevalent form of cover in our games (asteroids) is easily destroyed in a single turn of shooting (use the +1 ACC to offset Directed Damage, and the fraction of hull hits goes up to 5/9 rather than 1/3, and then you only need to deal about 10 combined impact / damage to a shields 0 target, which is not hard). 

The realism issue is one of scale - one of my opponent fields Imp5 Dam4 weapons on almost all of his ships.  Under these rules, those weapons are capable of destroying moons and/or small planets in a single shot (even a planet-1 only takes about 18 points of directed damage to destroy, which is a single shot), and several of his ships firing in tandem could likewise destroy a Planet-2 in a single turn.  I feel like that's a bit much - I, for one, make a general policy of not fighting species who can trivially destroy my planets. 

I think I may borrow these rules, but if I do, I will likely increase the hull on the planets and astermoons sufficiently that attacking them with Catastrophic weapons is the only way to destroy them in Gamelength turns, or perhaps give them Damage Reduction of some sort (maybe that they reduce the number of hull hits inflicted per damage die that comes up Hull by 1 - then they're only damageable by EHD and Cata, which seems reasonable).  Or I might make Planet-Killer a special equipment with shortish range and a warm-up time (ie, only usable against static targets); I'm not sure having them operate on even the same rules as starships is a good solution, because it skews the scale.

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(4 replies, posted in Starmada)

I haven't seen any...  it'd be reasonable to destroy asteroid fields as minefields of the same size, but big asteroids and planets would be a bit tougher.

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(4 replies, posted in Starmada)

Hey, I think my group is going to playtest this on Saturday, and I'd like to get some thoughts before we run it.

Planetary Assault

Attacker: Your objective is to inflict as much damage as possible to one of the enemy's colony worlds.    CRAT Limit: 1500.

Defender: Your colony world is under attack!
CRAT Limit: 1800.  However, the defender must spend at least 600 points to purchase 6 planet-side fortifications from the following list:

Type: Fighter Base (101)
Hull: 4 3 2 1
Engines 0
Shields: [TL0] 3 3 2 1                           
Special Equipment   - Equipment Tech Level: 2
Carrier (50) : Armor Plating:
Point Defence:


Type: Beam Base (100)
Hull: 4 3 2 1
Engines 0
Shields: [TL0] 3 3 2 1                           
Weapons : 1:[V], 2:[V], 3:[V], 4:[V], 5:[V], 6:[]
Weapons
Battery V:   Particle Beam  TL2,  1-3/4-6/7-9,  2/4+/2/1
Piercing +1
[GHI]  [GHI]  [GHI]
Special Equipment   - Equipment Tech Level: 2
Fire Control : Armor Plating:
Anti-Fighter Batteries (5):


Type: Missile Base (100)
Hull: 4 3 2 1
Engines 0
Shields: [TL0] 3 3 2 1                           
Weapons : 1:[2V], 2:[2V], 3:[2V], 4:[2V], 5:[2V], 6:[V]
Weapons
Battery V:   ICBMs  TL2,  1-6/7-12/13-18,  1/4+/3/1
Ammo:(13)
[GHI]  [GHI]  [GHI]  [GHI]  [GHI]  [GHI] [GHI]
Special Equipment   - Equipment Tech Level: 2
Fire Control : Armor Plating:


Setup: (Note: we use a slightly larger than normal map.  This might need scaling for standard maps)
First, a planet of size 1d3+1 is placed at the center of the map.  Then, 2d3 moons are placed, each between two and four hexes from the planet (attacker and defender alternate placing moons).  No two moons may be placed in adjacent hexes.  The defender must then place one planetary base on each 'corner' of the hexagonal planet.  He and the attacker then alternate placing ships.  The defender's ships may be placed anywhere within 6 hexes of the planet, while the attacker's ships may be placed anywhere within 6 hexes of the edge of the map.

Victory:
The defender scores victory points as normal.  However, the attacker scores double victory points for destroyed planetary bases, in addition to standard victory points for destroying the defender's ships.  Either side may claim victory when it has scored 800 VP.

The intent of mandating the base designs is to achieve an even distribution of points across the surface of the planet (rather than having one superbase that is really hard to crack).  Building custom bases would be cool as long as each base is at least 100 points.

So, thoughts?

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(3 replies, posted in Starmada)

Blacklancer took a stab at it here.  I keep meaning to try it out, but haven't yet.

150

(8 replies, posted in Starmada)

I've been using Gametable.  It's a bit lighter weight than MapTools, but also lacks some features.  The private map mode is great for Cloaking, though.  We also extracted the images from the Starmada tokens pdf and have been using them in Gametable (zip attached).