26 Topic by Enpeze

(5 replies, posted in Starmada)

Dan, did you ever consider to produce an ipad app for your excellent Starmada or for SFO? Would be first on my buy list. Just an idea how you can possibly show your games to the masses.  smile  . I have played civi, medici and smallworld on it and after that I think that especially the ipad is an excellent medium for turnbased boardgames.

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27 Reply by Enpeze

(3 replies, posted in Game Design)

This would be cool. I agree absolutely. Sailing ships and or runic iron clads full of elves or lizard men or whatever smile Rules for wind magic and "greek" fire. And sea monsters of course. And all with the well known and great starmada basic system where you can construct your ships by yourself.

For example Spartan Games recently developed Uncharted Seas, a miniature fantasy naval game. Personally I dont like the rules very much, but its success shows that such a game is cool today by young ( and older) gamers.

Spartan Games also developed a steampunk naval game with flying fighter fortresses (like in the movie Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow). The minis are looking very good in this. Its called Distopian Wars.

http://www.spartangames.co.uk/dystopian_wars_federated_states_intro.html

and

http://www.spartangames.co.uk/elf_fleet.htm


What do you think Dan? Is it possible that we will see a naval game along the lines of fantasy or steampunk in the future?

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28 Reply by Enpeze

(8 replies, posted in Quantum Legions)

Why not the usual NATO symbolic? (maybe a little bit tweaked in a futuristic way) Just a thought.

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29 Reply by Enpeze

(8 replies, posted in Quantum Legions)

brucesim2003 wrote:

Looks like someone wearing glasses and is cross-eyed. lol


or maybe 2 talking heads. smile

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30 Reply by Enpeze

(80 replies, posted in Starmada)

I love traveller. I remember to have replayed some fleet engagements between Imperium and Zhodanis in the 5th frontier war with Starmada X many years ago. And I also remember that it was not easy to include all ship types which are popular in traveller and play on the same scale. For example a 200t Beowulf free trader for my players would nothing be more than an independent gunship or so if it meets an Imperium cruiser. Not very interesting. The solution was not to use the same scale for smaller hulls (AFAIR up to several hundred tons) than for 100kt dreadnoughts. smile This meant creating 1 set of beowulf specs for our rpg and 1 other if the Beowulf was involved in a real naval engagement between capital ships. (to the horror of the players, hehe)

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31 Reply by Enpeze

(3 replies, posted in Quantum Legions)

cricket wrote:
Enpeze wrote:

I just read the demorules and they look really fine. What I could not detect was the question if the elements of single unit are required to stay in a certain range to be able to be moved.

Page 4: "When placed on the game board, the elements of each unit are stacked one on top of another, so that the entire unit fits into a single hex."


Ah thanks. This explains it. This means that the element counters serve as a type of hitpoints?

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32 Topic by Enpeze

(3 replies, posted in Quantum Legions)

I just read the demorules and they look really fine. What I could not detect was the question if the elements of single unit are required to stay in a certain range to be able to be moved. Is it each element adjacent to at least one other element of the unit? Or 2 hexes?

What happens to a single element if it has not the require command range to another element of the same unit? (eg. because formerly adjacent elements have been removed through enemy fire) Can it be moved at all?

All in all the quantum legion rules fits perfectly my taste. Simple but hard to master. Congrats. It looks like a great game.


BtW: the order counter system  reminds me to Warhammer epic 40k tabletop rules from the 90ties. This game had the same orders per detachment. Charge for close combat, advance for move & fire (with -1) and Fire shooting ranged weapons. The difference was, you had to roll for each element of the detachment and not for the whole unit.

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33 Reply by Enpeze

(7 replies, posted in Game Design)

Thanks for your post. Your ideas are fine but they are not quite that what I had in mind with the thread title. If I understand it correctly, is that what you present more a Starmada Campaign version and not a seperate game.

I thought rather to lift the level of the game one step up. Not which-laser-is-at-which-firing arc. Instead it should be about micromanaging compositions of fleets and logistics and operating them in a solar system. It should not be about single ships. While we have alot of single ship skirmish games on one side of the scale, and also Space Operas with dozens of solar systems on the opposite side, the SF game genre has not many such type of games in the "mid range". Prefect from FASA was one of them, also Invasion Earth from GDW (if you can remember it). Do anyone know more? Probably by naming and describing more of those mid range games we can get closer to it.

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34 Reply by Enpeze

(9 replies, posted in Iron Stars)

Savage Worlds would be probably the best for IS.

In 2010 there is also a Savage Space 1889 coming up.

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35 Reply by Enpeze

(105 replies, posted in Game Design)

jimbeau wrote:

I like the map very much. However, in my opinion, the counters have got to be absolutely beautiful or we'll lose people.

I wonder if tiny plastic minis would be cool, like Memoir 44?

(expensive, yes, but cool, eh?)


Plastik minis would be cool but I doubt that this is a feasible idea. They have disadvantages too:

-high production costs and thus a big financial risk
-dan has to find someone who is able to sculpt them
-the game has to be sold as box (no pdf)
-big hexes or you cannot stack units
-you cannot depict game stats on them

I am a big A&A fan and I really like those minis, but IMO this is a level too risky for a such a small company like MJ12. (except Dan is quite wealthy and is willing to take the risk - which I of course dont know lol )

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36 Reply by Enpeze

(105 replies, posted in Game Design)

I really like the idea of a SF tactical game with abstract grafics in the way ogre or similar games does it. The way Dan thinks with his "minimalistic" style suits wonderful to me. So possibly I can contribute one or another idea to it.

For example here is the counter layout of an older ame from Mayfair. "Hammer-Slammers" which theme is about high tech mercs vs. conventional ground troops on exotic planets.

The above are the Hover troops and below are conventional units.

Possibly Dan could tell us something about the background of his quantum legion idea? I think the grafical style of map and counters should represent the theme of a game to some extent.

Some elements I would like in quantum legion are:

-simple to grasp, but difficult to master ruleset (not more complicated than lets say SJGs ogre - or even simpler)
-coloured and beautiful grafical style for map, counters and game tables.
-Big counters which are easy to hold and stack (how about standup counters?)
-modular rules - easy to modify ruleset for further add-ons from MJ12 and user-made mods/units
-exotic terrain rules and rules for different gravity/athmospheres
-supply options? (I dont know about the scale of the game, so this is just a guess)

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37 Reply by Enpeze

(25 replies, posted in The Sovereign Stars)

Hi,
The planet looks very good sofar. For the text I would not pose the planet name OVER the planet, rather above so that it does not interfere with the planet picture.

-I would exchange the # for little humanoid people icons
-what is this IND?  :?:  The special symbols <> before and after IND make it somewhat "improvised" and too computer-techy IMO.

The rest I really like. Good job.

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38 Reply by Enpeze

(5 replies, posted in The Sovereign Stars)

Yes in supremacy (a great classic)it works this way.But IMO its tightly inverwoven with the carefully balanced stock exchange system, so I am not sure if it works also in SS. If there is no extreme improvment in gameplay because of paying 1$ as often as you want to move fleets, I would prefer to normal way. Possibly as advanced rule or racial technology there could be an 2nd movement per turn (emergency movement?)  which cost not 1$ but 2$ per fleet.

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39 Reply by Enpeze

(54 replies, posted in The Sovereign Stars)

ah. thank you.  smile

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40 Reply by Enpeze

(54 replies, posted in The Sovereign Stars)

Is it just my browser or have the SS preview files been removed?

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41 Reply by Enpeze

(23 replies, posted in The Sovereign Stars)

game clock sounds good and I would say this is the way to go for scenarios. But what if you want a play a campaign without pressure of time.

A "tempo" mechanic to bring more action into the game is for example the (above post) mechanic that bases produces command points which allow a player to build fleets. If you allow only an amount of x bases per solar system, this means that he has to expand to found new bases and not just fortify and defend. This would inevitably lead to a dynamic game.

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42 Reply by Enpeze

(24 replies, posted in Starmada)

cricket wrote:
Enpeze wrote:

Good idea. I would find it perfect if you go back to a simple streamlined and fast version of Starmada. (best would be even simpler than Version 1)  I would be the first who would buy and play such a game. In fact I am sure that this would be the starmada version I would play the most. I could even introduce such rules to casual gamers which is now hardly possible.

Not sure what you mean by simpler than version 1 -- I'm not sure it can get any simpler than that. smile

With "simpler" I mean even a more streamlined version with fewer but compact rules. I cannot explain it more in detail because I am not a game designer. Possibly I find time the next days to go in detail through the rules and write something about how I mean it.

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43 Reply by Enpeze

(24 replies, posted in Starmada)

BeowulfJB wrote:

I do like the ability Starmada has to design your own ships, weapons, fighters, strikers, etc.   



I play Axis & allies War At Sea often and actually have c120 miniatures from that game.  Every ship has a point value based on its size, armor(protection) and firepower.  Many have special abilities that mimic how they performed in WW2 and/or special equiptment they had, such as radar, long range guns, torpedo defense, and many more.
I guess that there could be a way to make and point ships in a simplier version of Starmada similiar to the way these A&A W@Sea ships are pointed.


Cool idea

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44 Reply by Enpeze

(23 replies, posted in The Sovereign Stars)

I am not fond of paperworking. I would prefer not to write even a single note on paper in SS. Keep it simple.
OTOH I would love to see a way how to circumvent the trap of amassing more and stacks of ships. In MOO2 they had a base ship limit to prevent this. Eg. a base "delivered" so and so many ship command points. If you build x bases then you have y CPs. Each ship need not only production points, it needed also a fixed amount of CPs if you want to operate it. This lead in a very simple and elegant way to hinder a player to amass a ridicolous amount of ships, only because he has the production capacity for it.

Possibly in SS one could have a similar system. eg. 1 base provide the right for producing 1 or 2 fleets (or so). The amount of bases could be limited either to a hard number of 10? or it could be dependent on the amount of specific solar systems. (bases can only be built in sun or colony type A-C) Thinkable is also a type of "elite" or "command fleet" which is independent and dont need any bases but each race only has 1.

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45 Reply by Enpeze

(7 replies, posted in Game Design)

thedugan wrote:

This *MIGHT* be where Dan is headed with the next iteration of 'Sovereign Stars" - I still need to read the last Beta he posted.


Really? I had the impression that sovereign Stars is more along the line of its predecessor. What I suggested was a system limited to a single solar system (possibly in combination with a simple planetary combat system), not a interstellar one. Do you think that Dan changes SS that much to fit such a request?

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46 Reply by Enpeze

(14 replies, posted in News)

Can you tell us a little bit more about quantum legion?  smile

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47 Reply by Enpeze

(24 replies, posted in Starmada)

cricket wrote:
Enpeze wrote:

Last week I played a Axis & Allies Naval Miniatures game which is similar in some aspects to Starmada (at least you have single ships and fighter squadrons). It was simple, fun and easy to play. We could learn the rules in 20-30 minutes and we used all of them and not just the basic rules. One game lasted 1,5h and we played 3 of them in a row. This I call a good gaming evening. I doubt that I would have enjoyed the evening as much if the game had more complex rules.

cricket wrote:

It really sounds like you're looking for a different type of game than Starmada, rather than a simpler version of the existing game -- which, as others have pointed out, is exactly what the "essential" Starmada rules provide.

Possibly my taste of games has changed over the years and I am looking for something different. Yes. I played incredibly complex games (like ASL) for years. But now the most complex I want to play is A&A level. Even the FFG games although often promising are not good for my taste because they are NEEDLESS complex just for the sake of complexity and not because of fun.

I know that some few people think that complex = fun. Not me anymore. I was in a change of my gaming philosophy as I realized that I am not enjoying complexity anymore and that I dont know someone who really does.

Now for me the true art to design a game is to know which are rules you can cut and which you can keep without sacrificing fun. Every unnecessary rule  is devaluating the beauty of a game until it reaches a point where it is not a good and playable anymore. This happened to ASL for example. While it has a good theme, I consider it not a good game. In my youth I was in a delusional state where I believed that ASL as one of the most complex games ever designed by mankind is nothing else than a great game. I was the typical nerd without family and obligations and I spent my time in learning ASL (and other) wargame rules.

But I ignored many facts about it in those time. For example that despite constantly reading and re-reading rulesets noone (including myself of course) I ever played could freely remember the whole ruleset (not even the basic ruleset) without looking in the rulebooks several times per game. Have been my gaming partners and I dumb? I dont think so. I rather believe that constantly learning and looking after wargame rules during the game is a typical behaviour of wargamers all over the globe.

Today I think a "good" game should not enforce a gamer to do this. ASL no only has too many rules (eg half a page only for chinese bycicle drivers)  also has many unnecessary ones which are not elegant and make not much sense. Rules for rules sake.

I also deeply believe that a game which has too many options is most likely not balanced and playtested. So the more options you have in a game the more unbalanced they are in terms of rule-stacking and interconnection.  As I have only a limited amount of free time I also I dont like to learn and relearn rules all the time.

I realized this and consequently sold most of my wargame collection several years ago. I dont miss any of them.


cricket wrote:

For what it's worth, I've long wondered what would happen if I went back to an earlier (simpler?) version of Starmada (version 2, perhaps) and redeveloped it along the lines of a game like A&A Naval or the tactical combat system in the Avalanche Press games... maybe one day I'll actually do that.

Good idea. I would find it perfect if you go back to a simple streamlined and fast version of Starmada. (best would be even simpler than Version 1)  I would be the first who would buy and play such a game. In fact I am sure that this would be the starmada version I would play the most. I could even introduce such rules to casual gamers which is now hardly possible.

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48 Reply by Enpeze

(24 replies, posted in Starmada)

Inari7 wrote:

Yes the bare bones of Starmada are without the weapon and defensive options. Nobody is forcing you to use options. You can make ships out of the basic Starmada game. That might be an idea for a game here in FL. Hmmmmmmm

Basic Starmada? Well it seems at least in Florida the gamers a still sane. smile

Using none or fewer of the options (for me personally and I guess for alot of other people which like more the minimalistic/easygoing side of gaming) is not really a solution. With the same argument I could play Advanced Squad Leader or any other game with an Avalon Hill premium difficulty Level of 10. And with the same argument I can say that I play ASL with just 10 german counters and 10 russians on a plain map. Do you think that I consider such an approach as fun?

Secondly my playing partners and I would have to go through all of the rules to know which of them to dump and which to use. This is time consuming and tedious.

Generally I know that games are usually undergoing a refinement but also a complexification in each new edition. There are many examples. But there is also always a point where the designers realize that their "baby" is getting too complex and noone sane can play it anymore. This is the moment when adding stuff is NOT the same like adding fun. (an example is the transition from overcomplex DnD 3.5 to easier DnD4) And I hope that Starmada Dan will realize this sooner than his designer collegues of WotC. So that we never see a 3.5 edition of Starmada.

Personally ATM Starmada is for me at the border to be unfun because of its increased stuff and complexity. I still play it with some friends sometimes but not as often as in earlier years. I also dont want to discuss which single rules to dump. This is too tedious for me and I dont want to be a starmada armchair rule designer.

Last week I played a Axis & Allies Naval Miniatures game which is similar in some aspects to Starmada (at least you have single ships and fighter squadrons). It was simple, fun and easy to play. We could learn the rules in 20-30 minutes and we used all of them and not just the basic rules. One game lasted 1,5h and we played 3 of them in a row. This I call a good gaming evening. I doubt that I would have enjoyed the evening as much if the game had more complex rules.

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49 Topic by Enpeze

(7 replies, posted in Game Design)

I just read a little bit here and there have been several ideas how to enhance Starmada. One of my old ideas which are always spinning around in my head comes again in my mind:

ATM we have the following in the game: Everyone has xy buy points and then starts at his edge part of the map. They battle until one side surrenders or is destroyed. Thats good and traditional tabletop.

OTOH is there a possiblity to create a more "meaty" type of game? With "meaty" I dont mean alot more complicated rules on a tactical level. I mean rather that we go up a level in fleet combat. But not as high as a interstellar campaign system like VBAM or SS shows.

How about the middle ground? For example lets look how a planet or solar system can be invaded. Defender sets up. Then attacker came in, defeats the defenders navy and finally lands troops. Could be a way to play it fast and dirty, but how about a whole campaign in a solar system and not just a single combat?

This means fleet assets on several planets, moons and other stellar bodies. Possibly even the bigger planets are divided in zones/continents/sectors or whatever. So the challenge is not only beating the enemy fleet. Its also about logistics, , thinking in a bigger pictures than determining the PEN of single cannons. You are not captain of some ships, you are an grand admiral/miliary gouverneur of a whole solar system. Your mission is to use your assets to defend the system or to invade it. Fleets and supply depots are reeinforced from outsystem, ships are replaced and repaired in star bases or mobile repair ships, troops are mustered, weapons and replacement fighters are fabricated. Supply depots can be raided or have to be secured etc. A whole solar system campaign could last for months or even years.

Would such a kind of game be too complicated? (this I would not want) Or is all we need to get this, having a genius idea?

Last century there has been a game called Renegade Legion: Prefect from FASA which was in this way. It had the perfect scale and decent rules but unfortunately it was also too complex to be enjoyed by many people. Another game in a similar (but not perfect) scale was Invasion: Earth from GDW.

Would anyone even be interested in such a starmada enhancement?

One rule I think could work is to divide the game into "campaign turns". If fleets are meeting in a planets orbit for example starmada combat can be used or abstract combat for not-so interesting battles. All ships are assigned to fleets, which have to be simulatanously preplotted when they want to move from one sector to another in the solar system like a starmada ship in tactical combat. I think this could be really interesting.

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50 Reply by Enpeze

(24 replies, posted in Starmada)

cricket wrote:

Okay, so let me ask you: where's the fat? What needs to be trimmed?

(I'm not being defensive -- I'd like to know.)


I am not sure if I know this exactly. My remark was just a general way a game should be designed. I mean there are many games out there which dont trim fat (many wargames too) . Starmada is possibly NOT one of those in its current edition and I would love if it stays this way and not become overly complex and burdend with rules in future editions. In contrary I would even prefer a "going back" into the beer and pretzel direction in future editions, even if this means that I cannot simulate every space opera setting out there with it. Eg. I was very content with the original setting you designed for it. Personally I would not need more and I always use it for my own games with friends.

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