1

(4 replies, posted in Miniatures)

Also, Ersatz Monarch was the proposed name for an improved version of the Tegetthoff-class BB that was never built.

Sorry for the years late reply on this thread, but I was browsing through old threads and noticed this.  This is actually incorrect- the project name for the new class was 'Ersatz Monarch' which literally means 'replacement Monarch'.  It had this name since it was intended for the old 'Monarch' class to be replaced by these ships.  No ship in the class would have actually carried this name- it would be like naming a ship 'Replacement Washington' or 'Replacement Nimitz'.  The class would have been renamed once the name of the first unit was decided upon.  One of the few things in Merchant War that really bothers me, now that I've learned about it.  wink

-Will

I'm trying to design a ship that has more then three types of weapons on it.  I believe the only place this might be an issue is when we determine the Weapon Damage Chart.  Right now it looks like I could just perform the usual calculation (# weapons x 6 / 10) for this battery (we'll call it 'W') and distribute the hits as normal.  Any reason this wouldn't work?

-Will

3

(6 replies, posted in Starmada)

In fact, I *would* pick forces of different tech levels, to show off how well the point system handles such match-ups.

-Will

<bonks head on desk>

As I said, I'm sure it would be obvious once someone else looked at it.  I forgot the defense value divider!  lol

-Will

So, I believe I am supposed to plug in 16 rather then 183 to get the capacity for seekers.  However, when I try to replicate the standard seeker I can't get the math to come out right.

(16 x 49 x 10) = 7840
7840/6 = 1306.66
1036.66(sqrt) = 36.15?  Isn't the standard seeker supposed to be 15?  Which (probably obvious) part am I doing wrong here? 

-Will

6

(10 replies, posted in Starmada)

So you could have an unshielded fleet with armor plating and/or countermeasures and/or increasing the hull size by 1 to give another hull point?

Yea, Armored Plating would be a must for a shield-less ship, I think.  Counter Measures would be a good idea too.

Designs that I think would fare well as unshielded are ones with very long range weapons and, of course, some fighters.

Actually, long range weapons and loads of fighters/seeker is pretty much what I had in mind as well.  For example, if I trying to model the UNSC ships in Halo the ship's primary battery would be long range, high damage, G-arc MAC cannons.  The 'secondary battery' would be Archer Missile Pods (in the form of Seekers), with small defense guns at the tertiary battery.  Ships would also tend to be large, so there's the ability to soak some damage. 

Still somewhat dependent on how high the IMP value of the enemy's guns are, but against an enemy with low/moderate IMP weapons I think this might be doable....

-Will

7

(10 replies, posted in Starmada)

True, I might have to experiment with a couple of designs to see if I can build a shield-less fleet and see how it fairs against a shielded fleet.

-Will

8

(10 replies, posted in Starmada)

That is what I feared.  Even if you have a very slight edge in taking damage, the fact will be that you'll have more damage rolls thrown against you to begin with, so you aren't getting ahead.  Oh well.

One request I'd have for a future Starmada 'options' book would be to include a rules system that allows a distinction between unshielded and shielded ships that allows unshielded vessels to be somewhat viable.

-Will

9

(10 replies, posted in Starmada)

I've always been interested in settings were one side has shields and the other doesn't (Halo comes to mind), and I see in the AE rules a roll of 4 would inflict no damage on a shield-less ship.  So, do people think it's worthwhile to design a ship that ignores 1/6 of the hits on it, even though high IMP weapons would be very good against it?  Combined with Armor Plating I think such a ship might be able to survive, depending on the IMP of the typical weapons it was expected to face.

Anyway, no idea if this would actually work at all, just throwing it out there.

-Will

Hey, I'm toying with Starmada AE stats for the awesome Homeworld style ships from http://z4miniatures.blogspot.com/ (can't wait for my pre-order to arrive!).  Here's what I have so far.

(299) Diplomat-class Heavy Cruiser[Terran]
Tech Levels E0 F0 G0 S0 W0
Hull: 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1
Engines: 4 4 3 3 2 2 1 1
Shields: 3 3 3 2 2 2 1 1
Weapons: 1[X] 2[Y] 3[Y] 4[Z] 5[Z] 6[ ]
[X] Spinal Laser, 5/10/15, 4+, 1/3/5, Piercing, Slow-Firing, No Range Mods
[G]
[Y] Heavy Particle Cannon, 4/8/12, 4+, 2/2/2
[ACE] [BDF]
[Z] Light Medium Particle Cannon, 3/6/9, 3+, 2/1/1
[ACE] [BDF]
Specials: Hyperdrive; Carrier(120); Launch Tubes

(90) Negotiator-class Destroyer[Terran]
Tech Levels E0 F0 G0 S0 W0
Hull: 4 3 2 1
Engines: 8 6 4 2
Shields: 2 2 1 1
Weapons: 1[XY] 2[XY] 3[Y] 4[Y] 5[Y] 6[Y]
[X] Medium Particle Cannon, 3/6/9, 3+, 2/1/1
[ABCF]
[Y] PD Particle Cannon, 2/4/6, 3+, 2/1/1
[AB] [BC] [AD] [EF]
[Z]
Specials: Hyperdrive; Carrier(20)

Note that the ships are intended to carry Strikers, not fighters.  Haven't designed their payload yet.  Anyway, what do people think, would these be reasonably effective designs?  I haven't designed enough Starmada ships to be sure.  I am trying to match the visible turrets on the ships where possible.

As a side note, I'm not planning on using the 'official' background, but I'll keep the designs the same and just rename the ships and weapons as appropriate.  The stats could be used for the main universe or my homebrew one then. lol

Eagerly awaiting feedback and suggestions.

-Will

Speaking of editors...I just found out that Jim Baen of Baen Books passed away yesterday due to stroke. It's a very sad day in the sci-fi book community.

Argh, that is really bad news indeed!  :cry:

-Will

12

(21 replies, posted in Iron Stars)

As another somewhat similar alternative, you could modify the existing two rules a bit.  For 'target size modifier' say that a ship that didn't thrust during it's turn doesn't get the modifier (standing still or coasting on momentum doesn't let you dodge) and for 'target speed modifier' say that a ship that doesn't turn doesn't get the modifier (flying straight doesn't help).

-Will

13

(26 replies, posted in Iron Stars)

That's sorta my thinking... but even this is getting too specific for what I had in mind.

I was simply trying to find a reliable and somewhat "realistic" way of ranking the relative sizes of standing fleets.

For example, if Britain has a higher modified GDP than France, then Britain's ether fleet should be larger than France's. I'm not trying to create a campaign system...

LOL, ok, this is sort of what I wanted to hear anyway!  lol

In that case maybe we should just fix Britain's fleet as a reference point and scale everyone else around them?

-Will

14

(21 replies, posted in Iron Stars)

The reason I like #2 over #1 is that the latter gives the bonus to smaller ships even if they are sitting still and doing nothing. At least #2 requires some movement for protection.

True enough, #2 does have it's stronger points as well.  As mentioned #1 is just my personal preference.  I like the new chart, seems like it solves the problem neatly.

-Will

15

(21 replies, posted in Iron Stars)

I use #1, actually pretty much the reasons hundvig listed- the implementation of #2 is 'off' as far as I'm concerned.  Going fast in a straight line doesn't really help you much- the guy's gunners will just compensate and still bracket you, it will just take longer.  It's the ability to zig-zag faster and change speed more quickly that makes smaller ships hard to hit.

So to my mind #1 is more accurate, or at least a better abstraction- the smaller vessels are making continous small course changes that doesn't effect thier movement in game terms to throw off enemy gunners, while the big ships don't have that option (and hence are easier to hit).   At least, that's how I envision the rule representing the 'reality' of the situation.

-Will

16

(26 replies, posted in Iron Stars)

If we do use the GDP to help determine fleet sizes I'd suggest having GDP determine a total 'tonnage ratio', not points.  I think the amount of shipping tonnage that a nation could construct would be as big or a bigger limit on fleet size then pure buying power (for the big boys like Britain or Germanyn in particular).  If a nation is willing to spend more then others on thier fleet, well we have the adjustment modifiers to GDP to reflect that.  Maybe it would even be a good idea to establish a difference (just a modifier would do probably) between nations that build thier own hulls and nations that have to purchase them.

In any event, how should we go about establishing the modifiers that are used to adjust GDP?  What's worthy of a positive or negative modifer?

Also, just another thought I've had- are we actually designing every ship for each navy?  One thing I'm worried about is that if we say 'here's how big every fleet is, and here's all thier ships' we might discourage new people from designing thier own vessels inadvertently (since with the official calculations there is no more room for new ships).  Should we esablish a fleet point or hull limit and then leave some of that space 'empty' so players can feel like they can fill that space up with thier own designs?  I know a 'full canon list' of ships won't discourage some players from designing thier own anyway, but it will certaintly discourage others....  Just a worry I have.

-Will

17

(26 replies, posted in Iron Stars)

Makes it 50,860.

Hmmm, still pretty high.  If we stick with the GDP approach I might have to re-think my alternative Balkan League history.


Indeed... but (a) I love objective statistics...  and (2) I don't know that there's any available numbers on money collected by the Government of different countries.

Hopefully, something like the industrial and motivation factors listed above can accomplish what you're suggesting.

I don't recall much of my economics, but does't GDP measure consumer spending, local investment and goverment spending?  If so, that means GDP really isn't a great measure of a nation's wealth in terms of producing a military-industrial complex at all, since goverment spending is already accounted for (aka GDP consumes the goverment's wealth, it doesn't create it).  If we are going to pick a statisitic to base assumptions I think it would be better to grab something that is more directly applicable, such as tons of manufactured/industrial goods produced anually or something along those lines.

The factors do help, but I still think it's a lot of work for something that could just as easily be done without any calculations at all, just level headed extrapolation.  I guess I'm not so much opposed as I am not grasping the necessity of locking into such a system.

As for the objective nature of the statistics, I've found that objectiveness has very little to do with military budgets....  lol

-Will

18

(26 replies, posted in Iron Stars)

I would be hesitant to tie GDP directly to Ether-fleet strength.  GDP is not always a good indication of goverment wealth or industrial capacaity.  China a good example- high GDP, poor industrial development.  Another example is that Spain is slightly wealthier then Austro-Hungry by GDP, but the Austrian goverment historically had far more money to play with (larger army and navy, better developed civil service) due to different tax and development policies.  Finally, what each nation is willing to spend on defense is a factor as well- the US and the UK are fairly close in GDP, but the % that the UK spent on defense was much higher in this time period, so thier military power was correspondingly greater.

I think a better approach would to be see what each nation sees as it's security needs and how it should meet them.  For example, if you have historically poor relations with another country (or a present point of contention) and they have an ether fleet consisting of X, then you better also have X or something that can counter X.  Another example is that the nations currently mining the earth-following asteriods (can't recall the name) will need plenty of smaller ships for escort duty, and nations that don't will need a smaller number of raiders to disrupt those convoys....  Spain's lunar adventure will give them thier own unique set of security requirements, and so on.  I could see GDP being a brake on nations getting too ambitous/large for their size.

And for the proposed Balkan League: 59,495 (includes Greece, Bulgaria, Romania, Yugoslavia). Compare to Turkey's 40,588, and they can make life difficult...

If you exclude Romania, things are more even, as the Balkans come back down to 37,685.

Actually, I'd pull Greece, have it be an ally and not a member and leave Romania in.  That way the League is closer to the White Russian sphere of influence (both geographically and politically).  Don't know what that does the GDP.

EDIT: The multiplying factors is an interesting idea and does answer some the issues above.  But I really do feel that we're otherthinking the issue and simply setting the fleet strength at what we need it to be in order to be interesting but not over the top is a better choice.

-Will

19

(4 replies, posted in Iron Stars)

No, but there's no reason that you can't!

The only black marks I see against Nemo himself going to space are-
1) No ramming, so the ether-Nautilus loses a lot of it's flavor.
2) No enviroment to protect- Nemo was after humanity for exploiting the oceans, not just for personal profit.  So unless there's a sudden appearence of an Ether-whaling industry....  lol
3) As a whole Nemo is a product of the Victorian era, while IS is firmly Edwardian.

Actually, I'd be interested in hearing what people think of piracy in Iron Stars.  At the 'present day' I have a hard time seeing Ether-pirates as viable, but as traffic increases from the earth following asteroids and commericial space stations are built I can see several ways it could arise.

-Will

20

(45 replies, posted in Iron Stars)

Actually, I'd say that all-around primaries largely negate the need for 'free' gryoscopes, and vice-versa.  So I'd pick one or the other, not both.  'Free' Gyrocopes and the different sorts of Keel Bombards sounds really cool and nasty to fight against though.     

I also think it would be better to have the Martians not use FAC's at all (at least to begin with), and have the concept be a human creation.  That could be the one area where the humans got a 'leg up' on the Invaders.

-Will

Thanks guys!  As I said, any specific points you think I should change feel free to pipe up.  I don't know how effective the League's slight emphasis on orbital bombing will be (though I imagine the League's leaders love the idea of flattening Istanbul) but that's the slight 'innovative' edge the League has in the pre-WWI era it appears.

@murtalianconfederacy- great idea on the name, consider the idea yionked.  Thank you.  8)

-Will

22

(45 replies, posted in Iron Stars)

Hmm, What if "Edison's Conquest of Mars" was a know-to-be sensationalized or exaggerated account. After all, there is "War and Peace" as compared to the Flashman novels, for example.

I was about to suggest the same idea- say most of the book is of 'questionable accuracy' but the section with the space combat was actually pulled from interviews with some of the sailors present, and so that part is mostly factual.  That way anything we don't want to be 'canon' can be discarded as the result of the author hoping to sell a few more copies, and the parts we want to keep can be the 'good parts'.

-Will

Balkan League short history-
The Balkan League formed to fight Turkey in 1912.  In this universe possibly include Romania and have Greek involved in the first Balkan War only as an associated power (this makes the league as a whole more like to be pro-White Russia).  One way to avoid the post-Balkan war fracas that destroyed the League historically is to make the establishment of an independent Macedonia one of the League's goals.  So I'd propose the League in Iron Stars consists of Serbia, Bulgaria, Montenegro, Romania and Macedonia, with the Greeks and White Russians counted as allies.

Design Philosophy-
The Balkan League Combined Fleet has several issues it has to address when it comes to designing ships.  First, the League is poor.  Dirt poor.  The A.B.C powers are wealthy by comparison.  That means every ship is a precious and almost irreplaceable asset.  Therefore, League ships tend to cram as much armor onboard as possible.  Additionally, every ship has be something of a jack of all trades as the League can't afford specialists.  Second, the League concentrates most of their worry and effort on the Turks, almost to the point of having tunnel vision.  This heavily influences the League's design process, as the League will try to counter anything the Turks have and tend to ignore anything the Turks don't.  For example, as the Turks currently lack any ships capable of carrying FAC's the League doesn't worry too much about FAC defense (and at present doesn't field any themselves).

Sofia class Light Bombardment Cruiser-
The Sofia class was ordered by Bulgaria as a rather conventional light cruiser design in late 1910.  Constructed alongside several smaller destroyers by the Germans, it was intended to server as Bulgaria's flagship and main orbital deterrent.  With the British attack on Buenos Aires soon the Bulgarians insisted the design be heavily modified to serve in the role of a 'bomber'.  It was hoped that a ship such as this would intimidate the other Balkan powers and allow the ether-navy to contribute greatly to Bulgaria's security.  However, the radical interior changes needed to add bomb-bays after construction has commenced forced the turret arrangement to be shifted, resulting in one of the poorest set of firing arcs on any Ether-vessel.  With the formation of the Balkan League Montenegro helped Bulgaria to fund the construction of a second vessel of the same class (the ship operates with a Bulgarian captain and a Montenegrin XO at all times).
Sister Ships- one, name TBD

Sofia class Light Bombardment Cruiser
Hull: 5 (S/2) PV: 21
Armor: 2
Thrust: 7
Primaries: -
Secondaries: 2/d8(x2)
Light Guns: 6/d4(x1)
Torpedoes: -
Bomb Racks (2)
[1-9] [10] [11-15] [-] [16] [17-20]


Pliven class Light Cruiser-
The Russians have always been great supporters of Pan-Slavic unity (or so the Russians like to claim).  When the Balkan League formed the White Russians hoped to advance their cause and gain influence over the new alliance by offering them the uncompleted keel of a Petrograd Light Cruiser at a cut-rate price.  After specifying several changes to the design (principally in the area of adding additional armor protection, which unfortunately slowed the ship down and necessitated removing much of the expendable ordnance) the League ordered the ship completed in Russian yards.  The ship is run by a multi-national crew, which makes shipboard life 'interesting' to say the least.
Sister Ships- none     

Pliven class Light Cruiser
Hull: 8 (S/2) PV: 35
Armor: 2
Thrust: 5
Primaries: 4/d6(x2)
Secondaries: 4/d6(x1)
Light Guns: 6/d4(x1)
Torpedoes: 2/d6(x2)

[1-9] [10] [11-13] [14-15] [16-17] [18-20]



Bucharest class Strike Cruiser-
While the destruction of the Haberver in the Italo-Turkish war was a great relief to the League the Cellat still has to be 'dealt' with.  The League decided a battleship was out of reach at the present time, and even if it was the League couldn't agree on the specifications!  The Romanians decided to expand their contribution to the Combined Fleet and ordered a 'battleship killer' from their White Russian allies.  The ship was fairly unconventional, featured 3 large single turrets and a keel bombard.  With very low thrust for a ship it's size, many observers (and the crew) criticize the design, stating that 'it better be able to fight battleships, that's the only thing it can catch!'
Sister Ships- none

Burcharest class Strike Cruiser
Hull: 11 (M/2) PV: 50
Armor: 3
Thrust: 4
Primaries: 3/d10(x2)
Secondaries: -
Light Guns: 6/d4(x1)
Torpedoes: 2/d8(x3)
Keel Bombard

[1-11] [12-13] [14-15] [16-17] [-] [18-20]



Vasil Levski class destroyer-
The Bulgarian destroyer ordered at the same time as the Sofia class, the Vasil Lavski has become the standard destroyer of the Balkan League.  More fluff coming.
Sister Ships- several

Vasil Levski class Destroyer
Hull: 1 (VS/0) PV: 6
Armor: 1
Thrust: 6
Primaries: -
Secondaries: -
Light Guns: 2/d4(x1)
Torpedoes: 2/d8(x2)

[1-3][4-5][6-16] [-] [-] [17-20]



Stefan Nemanja class Light Cruiser-
Serbian design, haven't worked the fluff out yet.  Basically one of the 'jack of all trades' mentioned above. 
Sister- possibly one

Stefan Nemanja class Light Cruiser
Hull: 6 (S/2) PV: 25
Armor: 2
Thrust: 6
Primaries: 2/d8(x2)
Secondaries: -
Light Guns: 6/d4(x1)
Torpedoes: -
Mine Factors (2)
Bomb Racks (1)

[1-10] [11] [12-15] [16] [-] [17-20]


So that's my first pass on the Balkan League.  I tried to avoid making them too powerful, as you'll notice no battleships or even any particularly large crusiers.  I tried to make them quirky but useful, but I'm afraid I moved too far into the ‘quirky' range.  So please give me any feedback, negative will be useful as positive in this case!  Anyway, based on the ships I've designed so far I'd anticipate the Balkan League having 4-5 light cruisers, 1 larger cruiser and 6-8 destroyers, which I figure is reasonable considering the multiple nations involved and the Balkan's international situation.  Also want to emphasis that nothing is set in stone to my mind, I'm willing to listen to all suggestions, fluff-wise and design wise.

-Will

I call dibs on the Balkan League!  lol

I'll whip some ships up tonight.

-Will

25

(34 replies, posted in Iron Stars)

All of these factions, or nearly all of them, are suddenly fielding BIG hybrid battleships/carriers with powerful guns (primary and secondary), rockets to take down FACs, and attack craft of their own.

Just have to interject- since all these new factions are John's, I want to point out that John simply likes big ships a lot (I've learned this by long association).  So I don't think these new factions reflect how the board as a whole expects the factions to be, but are just a product of John's peference for designing and using the big fellas.  I mean, as you say, many of these ships could easily be British or German or another major nation in origin and fit in with the 'cannon' designs just as well.  John is just trying to design the type of ships he likes and make them a little different.  At least that's how I see it (and if I'm way off base here John feel free to verbally smack me down).

In general I agree with the rest of your post though.

At the same time, I disagree with the premise that minor players taking notes is somehow "unrealistic" -- this is exactly what happens. Someone takes the plunge on a new idea, tactic, or technology, and everyone else hops on the bandwagon.

On the other hand, do the minor navies have the money to be that innovative?  If I was budgeting the construction fund a small nation I'd favor 'tried and true' approachs as much as possible.

-Will [/code]