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This would be a brilliant technique for Armada as well.
Someone said that the best way to get more IS material was to say so...I am saying so.
This is a great setting and I hope that we can gen up some fan response for the game.
The original reason I bought this game was to use in Rocketship Empire 36 over two years ago. RSE 36 went down in flames within 6 months due to the Real World concerns of the author.
I hope that is not the case here.
We want IS! We want IS! We want IS!
Power to the gamers!
Those ships are cool. How in the world do you do that?
Ant Lions, Doodlebugs and Horned Toads. That's Texas. I believe you are right about the fire ants killing off the red ants.
I lived in Stephenville till about 1998. And I didn't see any Horned Toads there then. I remember when I was a kid in the 70's seeing them all the time.
I don't have any issues with you being a submariner...just giving you a hard time. I was a tin can sailor for awhile, but I more strongly identify with the Army. I was medically discharged from the Army in 2005 as a Captain. I liked the Navy...I just didn't like spending months at a time at sea. So I got out went to Tarleton in Stephenville and got a commission. Leading troops has been the greatest privledge and pleasure I have known professionally.
I agree with the comments about old school games. I don't know if its that I got older. Have less time. Or because I have kids. Or all of the above, but I don't like complicated anymore.
That's why I like Ironstars...and I must admit I am beginning to spend a little time learning Starmada as well 
That's right I am a grognard...so sue me. 
I don't have a problem with you being a former submariner 
OK suspension of disbelief fully engaged. 8-)
But, this discussion has made me go back and read the movement rules yet one more time. :idea: On page 11 of the original rules when a ship's momentum is greater than the thrust rating of the ship the ship must move at least the difference. But I wasn't meaning that particular situation. I was looking strictly at the momentum rules. If a ship travelling at a high velocity, loses it's engines, or kills it's engines to slow down wouldn't it, according to the momentum rules go from say a 100 inch move to a 50 inch move in one turn?
Having lived in North Central Texas for much of my life (born there)...I do agree that pillbugs may not wheel. They locomote in a strictly columnar fashion.
Dugan when was the last time you saw a horned toad? And I don't mean the TCU mascot.
As far as time was concerned I figured we were using parsecs (see original Star Wars). Only a bubblehead.
What is the time scale per turn? Each inch equals what distance? Each turn represents how much time? :roll:
You would use tracers to track and adjust your fire. At sea you can watch your shells as they hit the water to adjust fire..."in space no one can see your steam" So you'd use tracers to adjust fire. Because visually tracking your rounds beyond a mile would be just about impossible. And mechanical ballistic computers were rare as hen's teeth (entire ships were built around them). But, the tracers would have the effect of telegraphing your shots. With a velocity of 1000 yds/sec a battlewagon shell would be visibly on the way for up to 20 seconds at 10 nautical miles. Plenty of time to shift a ship enough for the rounds to miss. I know you are a submariner so I'll cut you some slack. Which is why I am asking about speed of the ships...are they too ponderous to dodge or are they moving so fast it's not an issue? I get it. It's dreadnaughts in space so no dodging battleships. 8-) No Trek tech got it. So no beam of light from the gunfire. But Aether Torpedoes would still look like photon torpedoes...sorry. As the torpedo propulsion system interacts with the Aether they'll give off light as a byproduct (as someone noted would happen with the Aether sails on ships--in reference to the different countries having different colored sails :ugeek: ).
I wasn't clear on explaining the inertial sump thing. If we have a ship going to Mars or the Moon for that matter, higher velocities are acheivable using the rules as written. The only thing that interacts with the Aether is the sails and propellors...they are the only thing charged per your description. So if a ship travelling at 100 or 1000 inches per turn allows the momentum rules to bring it to a stop what would the end result for the crew be (go from 100 inches to 50 inches or from 1000 inches to 500 inches in one turn)? They end up as red smears on the front bulkhead! :shock: Or the front end of the ship would tear off...funny but not to the admiral that has to explain it to his government. An inertial sump would act to compensate for changes in inertia for the crew and ship (and internal gear--"I say better stop loading the 500lb shell in the gun"--"why?"--ship maneuvers--gun bunny squished like bug--"That's why." Ok this maybe an exageration but ships and crews would have to be a lot more constrained, or at least cognizant of their situation than they generally are on the ground). Without gravity all sorts of things become very difficult...and maybe just out and out impossible with straight 1900's tech. That's why I am proposing Aether Tech along with 1900's tech. :ugeek:
Aether Sails and propellors probably would not be enough to stabilize a ship while firing. They would just act as pivot points, or would add increased strain on the rest of the ship as it flexed at said pivot point. So you'd probably need something that stabilized the entire ship. This would be critical during maneuvering as well as during firing.
I am no Naval architect, but I have been to sea in a typhoon three times and spent 4 years at sea. So I have a pretty good idea about how maneuvering and weather, effects a crew and equipment. (Saw the cow fly across the galley one time ) That would just be magnified by operating in a zero g environment.
So recoilles rifles for guns? If so the pictures you've done are really off. Unless you want them to vent inside the ship? :oops:
Just wondering about technical stuff...
Ship speeds? operational ranges? detection ranges? time scales in game?
What tech are we using?
Early 1900s?
If so are we using clockwork driven telescopes/big eyes to scan for enemy ships?
What type of weapons are we using? Cannon? If so how do we offset the "equal and opposite reaction"? If we don't use radar how can we tell if our fire is accurate? Tracer rounds on the shells? If so the enemy can dodge the enemy rounds! Cannon shells barely travelled 1000yds/sec back then. That means at "typical naval ranges" (10 nautical miles approximately) you would have 20 seconds to react to incoming fire! Not an issue on Terra Firma, you probably can't see incoming and your speed is limited.
Are we using Tesla's ideas about torpedoes? He proposed radio controlled torpedoes early on.
What do we do about lack of gravity on ships? Inertia?
What is the scale? Does an inch equal 1000yds? 2000yds? 500yds?
I say we let the Luminiferous Aether be our magic doohickey.
Use Aetherscopes for detection. Charge the ships with electricity to provide stability to counteract firing. Say that the Aether provides an inertial sump during movement. Say that you can charge the decks and the Aether holds everything people included to the deck like artificial gravity. Charge the rounds prior to firing to allow vastly increased velocity within the Aether. This may look like a beam of light as the charge wears off (I stole this from Star Trek--phased lasers [allowing lasers to work in warp] became phasers). The Aether Torpedoes would sort of look like photon torpedoes in flight for the same reason (the electric charge interacting with the Aether and giving off light).
I want to write some stories and it would help to know this stuff. If anyone could point me to the technical data it would be greatly appreciated.
CPTCole wrote:What kind of changes to Klingon Academy is this going to require?
None, continuity in the Trek universe is NOT related to continuity in the SFB Universe.....
Darn!
Just saw the movie...YEEEHAAAW!!!
Non-stop kick butt action...and Spock gets the girl. What a rush!
What kind of changes to Klingon Academy is this going to require?
Curious what time periods are we looking at? Original series? Star Trek Movies? ST:TNG?
Oh yeah almost forgot...it's still not healthy to wear red in this new timeline.
Turret placement was largely determined by the ship's stats (which came first IIRC), and not hitting the sails.
I could see that being just a tad inconvienient.
One of the things I have been noticing with the Starmada version of IS is that Adm Fisher's desire to only fire to the front has won the day. Meaning the firing arcs for ships are quite different.
In IS it is the acme of success to cross an enemy's "T" with a broadside (as the broadside is area allowing all guns to fire unmasked). But, in the Starmada version the primaries seem to be set up to fire only in the ABCD arcs. Why the change if we are trying to get the feel of IS to Starmada gamers? :?
Faceted shielding/armor? That's not a staple of IS either but it's part of the crossover product and doesn't make sense again in the context of giving Starmada players a taste of IS. :?
Was this really just an attempt to add a few more gee whiz gadgets and a new universe to the Starmada arena? I could see that more than I could see it drawing Starmada players to IS.
I also noticed that several of the ships that should have ammo listed don't. :oops:
The great ships Adm Dugan has produced seem to match Starmada more than IS anyway as they show main batteries forward of the superstructure but nothing in the back (although the IJEN seems to have it figured out 
). I guess that is because they would interfere with the ether sails and propellors? If this is the case it is unlikely for the IS firing arcs to be accurate as most ships as pictured couldn't shoot into their rear arc. :shock:
I like the Starmada rules (however, I'd really like a section that allowed for hexless movement!) and I really like IS. I don't think the Starmada AE rules as presented really captures the tactical feel of IS, but it does an admirable job of creating new Starmada rules.
I was wondering if you used any particular historical ship classes to model the Aetherships in IS?
If someone could tell me which ship matched which class I'd appreciate it. I want to build/create a USEN to use and I want to make it as faithful to the IS designs that have been used so far.
I have to admit the big reason I have been attracted to Armada are the design engines. The ships seem to be really easy to put together. That is the biggest kewl factor for me. The rules are easy (ish).
I have a 13 and 10 year old and the rules have to be quick and easy to keep their attention. They are both very bright and my youngest is very intuitive when it comes to playing games, but the attention span and the stoic stick to itiveness just isn't there yet. Thus my attraction being greater to the IS rules (for them). Otherwise I'd probably be all over Armada (except for the hexes ).
Yeeps! is right. The Navy had some pretty spectacular crashes due to weather. And to crash something that large does beggar the imagination.
I have only played IS. I have Armada Admiralty edition, but haven't played it. I bought the new IS/Armada crossover. I have to admit I don't like hexes. I like straight table top miniatures. A big reason for my liking IS. I bought the crossover to spark my trying out Armada for real, but it hasn't happened. I am still not interested even though I have spent the money on it.
Can anyone share with me why Armada is a cool engine and something that will prompt me to play (with IS or other setting)?
I bought VBAM Armada and I really want to play Armada, but I keep having visions of SFB (and the 3" 3 ring binder of rules).
The setting.
I didn't buy the game because I liked the rules...I do, but that is secondary to the really cool setting.
I like HG Wells and his stories and to combine them and make a wargame from the extrapulated tech. Awesome. But the history that develops from the War of the Worlds is really well thought out and fun.
I like the rules because they are simple but not simplistic. There is enough there to make each game challenging. I don't need a bunch of templates or a hex grid. I just need a table, some dice and a ruler. It's great table top fun.
But it's the setting that rules.
Oh and I won't mention using Cavorite for a Beanstalk
Cavorite would revolutionize power production. Take the hovercraft plenum idea in a slightly different direction. Wind created by the cavorite could be used to power a "wind mill". Or a turbine. Get the right compression and a wind turbine is a cinch. Even a bubble head should be able to see that Especially a nuclear bubble head. This would be the quintessence of free green energy.
Such a turbine could also be used for propulsion in air or in water or underwater. You could create a Cavorite water jet for propelling ships at sea or even for submarines.
The ships themselves would probably have to be charged as well as the propellors. Why? Glad you asked. Guns is my first thought. Guns fired in zero g would have catastrophic consequences for maneuvering. Unless the Powers are using recoiless rifles there has to be a way to use the Aether to "stabilize" a ship in space. Therefore the ship would be electromagnetically charged to maintain way while using the guns. There would probably also be uses for maneuvering such as for rudders etc.
The 'Nef idea has the airship beat hands down.
I was a Tin Can sailor for 4 years.
Forgotten Futures would be great. It already has the "feel" and is free. It is well supported (10 "setting" books already) and should give you alot of great ideas to use in IS. I don't use the mechanics but the setting ideas are great.
I play Savage Worlds. It's a tabletop miniatures game with RPG overtones (strong overtones). The great thing is the rules can be tweaked to your heart's content to get the right ambiance for your game. Fantasy to SciFi is covered. It's simple but not simplistic. You can order the core rules as a PDF and I think its about 10 USD.
I actually use IS to play out space combat in my present Savage Worlds campaign. I have to make some additions to the IS rules to take PC actions into account, but the changes are very simple and straightforward to implement.
Compared to a regular RPG space battle IS space battles are extremely quick and merciless...you have been warned.
What killed the airship concept in our world was two things:- the public PERCEPTION of the Hydrogen hazrd
- relatively cheap fuel that enabled faster movement via airplanes
Hindenburg was a public relations disaster, but had aircraft been less capable, we'd still have them - or at least had them for a longer period of time. Hindenburg died because it was coated with what was effectively a layer of thermite, not because it was filled with hydrogen.
Is Helium safer? yes - but not by a huge margin. The economics and speed of the airplane killed airships in the long run though.
Why do we use supertankers? Economies of scale. More efficient to move megatonnes of oil via a single enormous tanker than via a bunch of little ships.
Airship populists continue to say that the zepp could become the aerial version of the super tanker. Economically it sounds good. The Airship should be able to kill the plane economically. But it doesn't. Because lighter-than-air craft are very dangerous in bad weather. Which is the reason the US Navy did away with it's aerial fleet of airships. A plane can fly in worse weather. Thus extending it's utility to the point that airships are an afterthought for most aeronautically minded individuals. A cavorite powered craft is a much more likely winner of the race for the air. Cavorite in a plenum chamber with air intakes and exhaust nozzles for the air would provide lift and propulsion. And it would cost next to nothing. Because the "fuel" is the air we are surrounded with.
I know I am responding to this a bit late, but wasn't the main reason the US got out of the airship biz more weather related than hydrogen related.
As kids we have seen the result of releasing a balloon in a high wind. Not much difference for a zepp or blimp. Too many accidents caused by weather led to the demise of the mighty airship.
The idea of zepps, dirigibles etc comes back from time to time but they are of such limited utility that they haven't and probably won't become the masters of the skies.
But a cavorite 'nef would work and not be such a terror to the airways. Create an upsided down plenum chamber with cavorite on the bottom of the chamber. Allow air to enter and exit only in certain directions. Not only do you have lift but you have thrust as well. The tornado effects are limited to the chamber and to the area immediately surrounding the entrance and exhaust ports. The "engine" would be simple, the only moving parts are the nozzles for the exhaust. Electric heating/cooling could be used to control the efficacy of the cavorite. (BTW stole this from an earlier post by Blackronin).
As to 'nefs being more detrimental to world affairs than airships...poppycock. If airships can do as you have postulated they would be just as deadly to the world status quo. With cavorite you can create a version of unobtanium that would limit the effects of 'nefs on world politics. Or just realize that 'nefs would give gunboat diplomacy a greater sphere of influence. After the invasion of the Martians world politics and borders on the map would probably be in a great deal of flux anyway.
The martians would have been the equivalent of the worst plague on a world encompassing scale (and in a singular compressed timeframe). Most smaller and weaker countries would have succumbed to the effects and the countries most able to bounce back would be gobbling them up. I recently re-read War of the Worlds and what the Martians did to the Earth's population would make the aftermath of the 100 years War, WWI, WWII, the black death, AIDS and the Swine Flu of 1918 look like a bad case of the measles.
I understand you want to use airships, but even with wasserstahl they would be prone to weather effects and not likely to be used. I think 'nefs based on cavorite plenums would be more likely.
USEN:
It would be a consistent Ether navy, by the wet navy standarts. Later to build than the European Powers navy, would still be, modern and with active numbers. In comparison with the wet navy from 1900-1914, once again just numbers the USN had more or less 17 operational BBs, between light, battle and heavy cruisers, with protected cruisers being renamed and some early BB being renamed, there were more than 100 active cruisers in this era. As for smaller warships you name it. So I think that when the USA decided to create a USEN, it would have a good number of everything.
Hey
Blackronin where did you get this info. I've been surfing the net, but haven't come up with anything like specific numbers of US Ships during the time period. I am a neophyte when it comes to net-fu.
All I have been able to find is some sites on ship names and sites about the Great White fleet (which I will probably use for my version of the USEN unless you can help me out).
I saw a release about Iron Sky quite some time ago and basically have given up waiting. I'll believe it when I see it
I have really liked the story so far. Do you intend to continue?
I loved the art. I loved the ships. I would like to see more if you have the time. If you have a chance maybe you could make up some scenarios to go with your slice of the timeline.
Thanks for the heads up!
I'll get the games and hunt up that PDF. I didn't see it when I downloaded from the Majestic XII website. Is that the one you are thinking about?
BTW I lived in a small town outside Ipswich for 3 years.
Cheers!
mj12games.com/forum → Posts by CPTCole
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